Creation?

[puglover]

Just because science cannot adquately explain how the world is created, it does not mean that we have to accept the religious side of the story.

You don't have to if you don't want to. But it seems so much more logical to me.

so, 'something' cannot come out of 'nothing', it must come from 'something' right?
I think you would agree that god is 'something' (in the sense that he is not 'nothing'), therefore, by your logic, he has to come out of 'something' as well. we arrives at my logic that something of higher intelligence must have created god.

God says he is eternal, he didn't have to come out of something.

 

[puglover]

I didn't mean the world. I mean look at life as we know it on earth. It is based on a form of cruel existence.
On a spring day, you can sit on the lawn enjoying the sunshine and watching the bird feeding its 'babies', you might be compelled to say "what a beautiful world god has designed". Well, the world might be beautiful to you, or even to the birds, but it is not beautiful to the bug who is being fed to the baby birds.
One animal simply cannot exist without murdering another. You sustain your existence by killing chickens and cows and comsuming their bodies. Chickens sustain their existence by killing bugs and worms.
This is not a form of existence that a perfect and loving god would have created.

Exactly. We live in a cruel, sinful, fallen world because man went and screwed up God's perfect creation. Fortunately, God gave us a way out of the punishment, but that's a different debate.

 

[Dida]

Life as we know it, according to the religious is designed by god. Human might have sinned, but that sinfulness does not change man from a vegetarian to a meater. Animals that eat meat, and hence has to kill to sustain their existence are meant to eat meat. Such biological characteristic has nothing to do with the sinfulness of man or animals.
If god created the world as you said, than he wanted the animals to kill each other to survive, which is not so perfect, and no so nice.
Therefore, the being that is more wrecked, and most sinful is god, and not man, since he is ultimately responsible for all the wreckedness of the world.

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: A little more discussion, a little less flaming please.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I don't think any physicist has noted matter coming from total nothingness.

You might want to read up on virtual particles. You might also want to check out the conjecture that the total energy of the universe is zero.

I am defending the existence of an eternal Creator.

Maybe you think you do, but the argument you provided supports eternal existence, not a creator; it would do just as much (or little) for a supporter of Steady State, of a cyclic big bang/big crunch scheme, or of brane collision models.

 

[Dida]

You don't have to if you don't want to. But it seems so much more logical to me.



God says he is eternal, he didn't have to come out of something.

huh? god said what? where did you hear god say anything? u must have really good antena, because i have no reception of god's broadcasting here.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Exactly. We live in a cruel, sinful, fallen world because man went and screwed up God's perfect creation. Fortunately, God gave us a way out of the punishment, but that's a different debate.

Awfully nice of him eh? Did he also give a way out for the bugs?

 

[CurtSibling]

What do you mean by that?

What is confusing you? My post is written in plain enough English...

You are caught up in total literal belief in the unproven fables of primitive ages.
And as such, you seem unwilling to entertain the fact that the ideas of some
Europeans from the Dark Ages may not hold the ultimate answer of the cosmos.

Is that understandable to you?

 

[CurtSibling]

Exactly. We live in a cruel, sinful, fallen world because man went and screwed up God's perfect creation. Fortunately, God gave us a way out of the punishment, but that's a different debate.

Do you honestly expect us to treat such illogical myths with lucid and academic seriousness?

.

 

[Dida]

A person like me, who never profess myself to be perfect or universally loving, if given the power, would possibly design a form of existence that is far more peaceful, and far less murderous than life as we know it.
For example, instead of making animals having to eat to sustain their life, god could have made it so that man and animal can sit in the sun for 10 minute each day to recharge.

 

[CurtSibling]

A person like me, who never profess myself to be perfect or universally loving, if given the power, would possibly design a form of existence that is far more peaceful, and far less murderous than life as we know it.
For example, instead of making animals having to eat to sustain their life, god could have made it so that man and animal can sit in the sun for 10 minute each day to recharge.

That is why the divine myths our ancestor created to satisfy their ignorance in
past eras do not hold up in the cold light of day, the religions of the world and
their invented gods have 'human-made' written all over them...

No gods wrote holy books, we did, along with all other good and ill things we
have engineered on this human-world. Only a human could come up with the
restrictive, insane and deadly corrupted consequences of a tool like a religion.

The appeal is still there though, gods and the people who dispense them can
offer the failures, the sad, the lonely or the weak a chance to assume some
ego-power via faith - The idea that you are superior due to being a servant
to a supposed superior morality - Again, a mere human delusion...

How our species loves the game of grand illiusions and invented divinity.

 

[Yaniv]

Exactly. We live in a cruel, sinful, fallen world because man went and screwed up God's perfect creation. Fortunately, God gave us a way out of the punishment, but that's a different debate.

Let's see who exactly screwed up the "creation".
-religionists are the ones who blow themselves up on buses, tubes, hotels and buildings.
-religionists are the ones who put up death camps 50 years ago, and mass murders all over europe and the far east.
-religionists are the reason that today, people all over the world live in fear that they may be the next targets.
-religionists are reponsible for many many wars throughout the entire history of the human race: even before the days of the roman empire to this very day.
-religionists are the ones who are preventing peace all over the world today, mainly the Israeli /Palestinian Conflict.

And what exactly is the worse thing an athiest has done...?

Countless lives for thousands of years have been lost due to religous beliefs.
Even though most religionists are peaceful people, some are not.
I have just proven to you that a major part of the "screwed up" world is because of religion, (REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT A GOD DOES EXIST), not because of athiesm- and yet you blame us atheists.
If anyone is to question the morality of their beliefs, it should be religionsts.

 

[CurtSibling]

Extreme religious belief is like a mental sickness...

Akin to an awful virus that twists the human mind into a broken machine, incapable of profitable use.

 

[ainwood]

Moderator Action: Please stop the religious bashing / trolling.

Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Dida]

[mod]true, we should focus on explaining why religion is bad, and not merely restating our position that it is in fact, bad. [/mod]


Moderator Action: You're not a moderator - 7 days for impersonating one.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[The Last Conformist]

@CS: Are you, by any chance, a fan of Richard Dawkin?

 

[Dida]

virus of the mind?

 

[Elrohir]

Man has a deep-seated need to be a servant, thence the appeal of religion and the popularity of cats as pets.

I find the opposite tendancy: I think man has a deep-seated desire to play as God, not as a servant. Think about it, do people more naturally try to serve people, or get other people to serve them? Are people more naturally humble, or arrogant?

 

[I am the Future]

All i say is im down With Jesus. Ill stick to my belifes until i die.

AMEN

6-Days Earth and every species on it existed.

I could argue forever but it wouldnt change anyones mind so I wont.

 

[I am the Future]

L
And what exactly is the worse thing an athiest has done...?

Athiesim is a fairly new idea. Wait 1000 years and it will be a religion and fall right with the rest of us.

AS for your list of what religious people have done, you should add.

-Get millions to actualy give a flying rats ass about other people.

-Become the suport of every major Country.

-Give people a hope for as better tomorrow.

-Not to mention Give millions Eternal life.

-Shape the cource of history.

Nothing Big, Right.

religion will always exist. You should get use to it.



ANother point. (didnt I say I wouldnt argue? O WELL)

-The greatest minds use to think that diseases were caused by smells.

-The GReatest minds thought we were in the center of th Solar System.

-The Greatest Minds thought that the earth was flat.

-The Greatest minds were proven Wrong.

Why should evolution be any different. If creation worked for the founding fathers I think it will work fine for me