1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

[R&F] Cree’s UU very underwhelming?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nitedemon, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. nitedemon

    nitedemon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    202
    This is my first thought playing cree. The unique scout’s extra strength is not enough for them to go head to head with barb spearman or warrior, so you are pretty much just using it the same way as regular scout, merely exploring; And especially in this expansion the sooner you have scout exploring the more rewards you could possibly get (city states envoy, wonder discovery, goodie huts, era scores), but Cree UU’s higher building cost delay this process. So I really think the negative outweighs the positive for this UU. Or am I not using it right ?
     
  2. Magil

    Magil Monarch

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,597
    I am not overly impressed by the UU, but the UI is very, very good so I don't mind so much.
     
    Jewelrunna, Quis and Eagle Pursuit like this.
  3. Cyberian

    Cyberian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2005
    Messages:
    283
    The UI is extremely good yes and I feel the UU is also good. On higher diffs the CS increase definitely helps greatly. Scouts are almost worthless on Deity the Cree scout definately is not. Yes you need 2 more turns to get it out but you save that due to the early movement cost promotion.
    You can use the Cree scouts for warfare once they quit scouting to cover your archers and retreat them easily when damaged due to great movement. You can't do that with normal scouts. I also use double scout XP early.
    And later when you get ultimate promotion they are insane and its actually manageable with lots of ancient era warfare.

    Btw. in my current game I found a Cree scout in a goodie hut that felt great.
     
    Mr Jon of Cheam and Thormodr like this.
  4. Mojo85

    Mojo85 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
    Messages:
    107
    They are able to chase down barb scouts too and take them out before they have a chance to get away and wake the camp.
     
    Mr Jon of Cheam and Thormodr like this.
  5. FractalAdvocate

    FractalAdvocate Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    37
    With their free upgrade, they can scout their chosen terrain better than other scouts, and survive random barbarian encounters easier -- if you're in all hills or all forest/jungle, this can be a substantial difference in the amount of early scouting you get done.

    For me, they were a lifesaver in an early war -- I had been trying to go peaceful, but I massed them and they let me turn around from getting conquered to wiping out the attacking civ once I got some archers up and a few of them upgraded to the +20 combat strength promotion. I bet they'd be good on a purely offensive early rush, too -- 3-speed terrain-ignoring 40 strength a little before anyone even gets swordsmen online is amazing, and 20 strength makes them almost good as warriors(warriors promote to 27 pretty quick). Notably their 40 strength is without iron or additional resource expenditure to upgrade, and they come with the first upgrade free, so they get there quicker. They fall off when knights start coming out, though.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  6. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    990
    Gender:
    Male
    I find it an odd design choice to make Unique Districts half price, but make some Unique Units cost more than their standard counterparts. Sure, they can still balance things this way, but why?

    If one of the ideas for the Cree is "you can have better scouts", then one motivation to playing them may be "I want to try a game with a primarily scout army early and see what happens". Why purposefully cramp that by increasing their production cost?

    It also dampens the uniqueness of who your neighbours are. "Ah, there's the Cree. Better watch out for super powered scouts sneaking up on me. Oh, never mind. They cost more so the AI won't be able to pump too many of them out."

    It's not that their design choice is wrong from a balance perspective, it just seems odd from a game experience perspective. I'd rather all Uniques be easy to deploy, whether units, districts, or improvements, to encourage their use, whether you're playing as them or against them.
     
    Zike likes this.
  7. Hans Castorp

    Hans Castorp Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    188
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    I found them pretty decent. I've hardly ever got a scout up to the +20 CS promotion, but it was manageable with the Cree, and with the extended promotion line, it was worth keeping the promoted units around.
     
    Thormodr likes this.
  8. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,240
    Location:
    Toronto
    I got my first taste of R+F last night and chose the Cree, and I'd agree. While it's certainly nice to have scouts that don't immediately die, I found they were not quite good enough offensively to even replace warriors for offense, especially since warriors get a production bonus card.

    I think if they were the same cost as a regular scout, that's certainly not too overpowered to want to build a couple. Or if the bonus XP for scouts card also included a production boost for them, then at least you have a short window that you can get a couple of them out early.

    Their only real bonus is that between them and the UI, you get a lot of early era points, so it's basically impossible for the Cree to not go into the first era without a golden age. I do think they're better than a regular scout, but not by a whole lot.
     
    OneMoreTurnPerTile likes this.
  9. Anno

    Anno Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I think it's good, not great. It would help if it had the normal scout production cost. Still, the free promotion is pretty amazing for early scouting when you get those blanket of trees starts. And it seems pretty good at dealing with barb scouts.
     
  10. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Agree that they're useful but with the cost increase it doesn't seem like an advantage the Cree get, just a different flavor of scout.

    I built 2 in my immortal game and they were useful vs barbs and in my first defensive war. Their agility in rough terrain makes them pretty good at avoiding death and taking out slingers or wounded units trying to retreat.
     
  11. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Yes it is an negative UU.

    But not as negative as some other UUs so that with other bonuses, Cree is still a positive Civ compared to blank, Poland or Georgia.
     
  12. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The thing that bugs me is that you're almost required to build it for the Golden Age points. If I'm playing on Archipelago or a smaller map I sometimes like to skip the scout and go right for builders/monuments.

    With the Cree I feel almost forced to build the UU first otherwise I will never build one and at that point I'm essentially playing a Civ with one less unique trait than all the others
     
    Zike likes this.
  13. UWHabs

    UWHabs Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    3,240
    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, the advantage though is if you don't want a scout, you can save it to build later when you're pushing for a golden age. You don't have to build it first.
     
    DeutschDachs likes this.
  14. ferretbacon

    ferretbacon Obsessor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North Texas
    To be fair, do the barbarian scouts even have to make it back to wake the camp? I haven't observed this in R&F yet, but in the base game, as recently as last week, I swear I've seen barbarian camps spew out units before the scout has had a chance to return.
     
  15. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    929
    The AI should just be given some of its unique units for free when it unlocks the technology. I’m always sad when I spawn next to Harold and I don’t get raided by a carpet of long boats and then attacked by hordes of vikings.
     
    Trav'ling Canuck likes this.
  16. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    1,021
    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    How about spawning next to Sumeria or Aztec then?
     
  17. acluewithout

    acluewithout Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    929
  18. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Oh good point. For whatever reason I thought it was limited to the era it becomes available
     
  19. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Messages:
    712
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    I played the civ mod The Thule so I had a little practice with the "Scout rush" strategy (pretty much your standard Civ V strat.).

    The Cree's UU is best used to take out other scouts so your barbs don't get woke.
    You can't really use them in battle until they've got to level 3 Ambush (+20 combat). Survey (policy) helps.

    Until then, use them to scout out your neighbours (and theirs for joint wars), goody huts, path finding for traders/roads, squat (places to settle) and if you're lucky, capture unescorted settlers.
     
  20. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2018
    Messages:
    990
    Gender:
    Male
    It would be a dramatically different game than spawning next to Teddy and Peter :). Variety = good to my mind.
     

Share This Page

Ebates: Get Paid to Shop