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Crime overhaul Discussion thread

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by pineappledan, Jul 10, 2018.

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How should Crime be Calculated

  1. Keep the current system (Defense only)

    20 vote(s)
    27.4%
  2. Defense, Food, and Production

    11 vote(s)
    15.1%
  3. Defense and Food

    5 vote(s)
    6.8%
  4. Defense and Production

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  5. Food and Production

    20 vote(s)
    27.4%
  6. Defense only, but change how Garrisons work

    8 vote(s)
    11.0%
  7. None - Crime should be scrapped entirely

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  8. Other (please elaborate in a comment)

    3 vote(s)
    4.1%
  1. Rekk

    Rekk Chieftain

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    When you click "Avoid Growth", the city planner automatically chooses tiles that gets the Growth total as close to 0 without going under. If you have very few low-food tiles, then you can still get positive growth. If the bucket is filled, the second feature of "Avoid Growth" comes in and prevents an additional population from spawning (and any additional food is lost).

    In other words, "Avoid Growth" tells the city planner to avoid food yields that make growth > 0 in addition to preventing additional population from spawning. To get the effect you are describing, the player would have to lock food tiles while "Avoid Growth" is checked.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    We're sure you're right, but there's a risk it's not recognized in your next beta, and you'll have to take it back as promised. :)

    For what I've seen on AI behaviour, I think it can handle it. What probably is not coded is the order to click on avoid growth in such extreme case.

    As you'll see, it's going to work well with food, and it could work well with growth too, only it takes a little bit more coding.
     
  3. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    If you check avoid growth and still generate food, and you hit the limit for a new citizen, does it stop and any further food is lost in space or does it get stored indefinitly more and more?
    Ive never used that feature, I always picked the tiles manually.
     
  4. HeathcliffWarriors

    HeathcliffWarriors Chieftain

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    Further food is lost in space.
     
    BiteInTheMark likes this.
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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  6. Amecareth

    Amecareth Chieftain

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    Jun 8, 2016
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    This distress unhapiness source feels good :).

    P.S: if it makes India somewhat playable, then I'm looking forward to it (sarcasm)
     
  7. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    I see no beans, why do you falsely advertise?
     
  8. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Aztecs getting danced on by Shoshone and Byzantium?
     
    Gazebo likes this.
  9. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Did you noticed the info text about happiness says you get 8 happiness as bonus but in the table you only get 5?
     
  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    A problem with mixing food and production needs?
     
  11. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    No, the row refers to extra happiness generated by luxuries.
     
  12. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    I see what you mean.
    5 from luxuries (bonus)
    4 for having at least one copy.

    Then, it says "Happiness from luxuries (currently 8)". Maybe a problem of rounding?
     
  13. John.B.C

    John.B.C Chieftain

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    It seems that the number "8" refers to the total amount of happiness currently generated, and not to the bonus of "5" from luxuries.
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    8 is the real value, 5 is the scaled value based on # of cities. I have it that way right now for debug.

    G
     
  15. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    I'm also a bit worried about this. Right now every we need every citizen to produce more than 2 food on average in order to keep city growing with constant speed (because every next citizen is more expensive, lets say i want more or less +1 pop every 10 turns). Adding food to needs creates weird loop where i need more food per citizen with every next citizen born. I'm especially worried for higher difficulties, where i constantly see AI cities with 40+ pop while i have only 15-20, Emperor and below should be fine. I'm not saying that it can't be balanced, just pointing out at potential problems.

    Btw its been a long time i'm thinking about removing food from the list of AI bonuses, or reducing it heavily, so that AI gets more or less the same population as human, maybe slightly more. I think it makes a lot of sense given that AI still has production reduction as a handicap (it can be increased). 40+ pop cities working useless tiles and having dozen of unemployed hobos seem inelegant and redundant. And those desert cities with 25-30 pop just does not feel right.

    This is actually an interesting idea that can be used instead of food/production thing. I mean to create a civil militia specialist slot that produces 2-3:c5strength: . Also would be cool during wars. Not sure if it is easy to do, but i really like it, it creates interesting ingame choices like having specialist that does not produce anything, but reduce crime and produce everything indirectly. It is very elegant, makes a lot of sense and does not have those problems that food/production idea has. @Gazebo thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
    vyyt and BiteInTheMark like this.
  16. Bridger

    Bridger Chieftain

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    In what way is it more static, inflexible, or punishes large cities more than the other yields? Boredom really only comes from buildings, just like defense; why is it not a problem in the same way? Large cities could easily outgrow the culture-producing buildings for your current tech level just as well, correct?
     
  17. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    Wrong. You can also get culture from certain tiles, external trade routes and great works.
     
  18. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Chieftain

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    Culture can come from buildings, specialists, Civ Unique Abilities (china, germany,...), improvements (village, kasbah,...), policies (tradition opener,....), trade routes, Great Works, corperations.
     
  19. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    1- That's why it's food AND production. Don't want to grow too fast? Build mines instead of farms.
    2- AI doesn't get bonus food, it gets a reduction in food needed for new citizens. Not meant to try and discredit your argument, just some extra knowledge.
     
  20. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Well isn't it the same thing? I mean after all what matters is not exact numbers, but how many turns it takes to born/build/research

    Also i'm pretty sure AI does get some flat bonuses on entering new are, founding cities etc.
     

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