Crime & Punishment

[voskhod]

Suggestion for existing crimes: Make unhappiness and instability worse, especially unhappiness.
More often than not I see cities that are devolved into basically total anarchy - Riots, car bombs, murder, kidnapping, gang warfare, plane hijacking, military desertion, all kinds of fun stuff. And the city is completely okay. The city is healthy, it's happy due to luxury resources, it's got plenty of gold going around, instability is kept low by bribes and garrisons and takes a very long time to become a problem, and so forth. Cities can have 2000+ crime and be okay for a really long time. I have a problem with this. When I imagine a city that's got the above listed crimes going on, I basically imagine 2004 Baghdad, or 1946 Berlin - complete and total anarchy, but this isn't really being reflected in game. For cities in caveman2cosmos, having something like 2000+ crime is just a nuisance, and if you have revolutions disabled it's almost completely unnoticeable.

My suggestion is to make all crimes across the board worse in regards to the unhappiness and instability they cause, and to create new high-end crimes that go above 1000+, since currently there is no difference between a city that has a crime level of 800+ and a crime level of, say, 5000+. For one, though, change rioting. Rioting currently occurs at 650 crime and only causes -3 happiness and -2 health. Change it to start at something like 900 or 1000 crime and cause -10 happiness and -20 health, plus 150 instability per turn.

The general idea I'm aiming for is that crime should be logarithmically bad, like the Richter scale for measuring earthquakes.
0-100 Is nothing
100-200 Isn't even noticeable
200-400 Is a minor nuisance
400-500 Puts a small dent in happiness and gold
500-600 Starts to cause some unhappiness and instability
600-700 Things are starting to get pretty bad
700-900 Lots of unhappiness and instability, gold takes big hits
900-1100 Huge unhappiness and lots of instability, unhealthiness skyrockets, food/hammers/gold suffers a bit
1100-1300 Massive unhappiness and revolution is basically guaranteed, unhealthiness is so high that the city is losing population no matter how much surplus food you have, food/hammers/gold takes a significant hit
1300-2000+ City is basically in total anarchy, every citizen is angry no matter how much luxuries you have, starvation is rampant, revolution is inevitable, food/hammers/gold is at almost -100%, everything is chaos

 

[Hydromancerx]

@voskhod

Here are the current crme triggers. Where would you move them to?

950 = Timeline Tampering
850 = Plane Highjacking
800 = Car Bombing
750 = Organized Crime
700 = Murder
700 = Gun Rampage
650 = Rioting
600 = Poaching
600 = Environmental Dumping
540 = Illegal Brainwashing
525 = Rape
520 = Child Labor
515 = Kidnapping
510 = Asimov Tampering
500 = Gangs
500 = Vigilantism
460 = Military Desertion
450 = Drugs
450 = Gene Forgery
450 = Insubordination
400 = Car Theft
400 = Car Chase
350 = Bank Robbery
350 = Sports Riots
325 = Burglary
300 = Fighting
300 = Money Laundering
275 = Mugging
250 = Arson
250 = Hate Crime
200 = Pickpocketing
150 = Hacking
100 = Counterfeiting
90 = Embezzlement
75 = Forgery
75 = Trespassing
50 = Drunk Driving
50 = Sexual Harassment
42 = Flashing
25 = False Accusations
20 = Graffiti
10 = Toilet Papering
10 = Littering
5 = Online Piracy
1 = Soliciting

 

[Faustmouse]

I think you are 100% right here voskhod. While you can't ignore crime like pollution or disease (which really hasn't SUCH a bad impact at the moment), it is more or less a minor problem. Funny thing is, when my city had the crime gang warfare for example, I never imagined a city with actually a gang fighting another and cause a lot of problems , but more saw the city as "yep, there is the crime gang warfare".

So best thing to do here is coming up with stats for each existing crime and possibly adding more crimes. This would really help to get your idea into game

 

[voskhod]

So here's what I've come up with.


1350 = Sectarian Violence
-20 happiness
-10 happiness in every city
-40 health
-800 crime per turn
5000 instability per turn

1320 = Rogue Mercenaries
-4 happiness
-200% military unit production
+40 crime per turn
140 instability

1300 = Plane Highjacking
-8 happiness
-4 happiness in every city
-2 health
100 instability

1280 = Illegal Brainwashing
-6 happiness
-3 happiness in every city
-2 health
-200% espionage
-200% espionage defense
40 instability

1180 = Drug Cartels
-12 happiness
-6 unhappiness in every city
-30 health
+60 crime per turn
90 instability

1125 = Car Bombing
-4 happiness
-2 health
60 instability

1100 = Gang Warfare
-6 happiness
-4 happiness in every city
-12 health
+40 crime per turn
40 instability

1070 = Power Struggles
-4 happiness
-2 health
-50% military unit production
120 instability

1050 = Rioting
-8 happiness
-4 happiness in every city
-20 health
-30% hammers
-30% commerce
-50 gold for maintenance
80 instability

1000 = Human Trafficking
-6 happiness
-3 happiness in every city
-4 health
+25 disease per turn
50 instability

950 = Organized Crime
-6 happiness
-3 happiness in every city
-8 health
-20% espionage
+20 crime per turn
40 instability

920 = Looting
-3 happiness
-50 gold for maintenance
-20% hammers
40 instability

900 = Prison Breakouts
-3 happiness
+35 crime per turn
35 instability

870 = Unlicensed Cloning
-4 happiness
-2 health
-10% science
20 instability

840 = Gun Rampage
-6 happiness
-3 health
60 instability

820 = Cyber Warfare
-2 happiness
-100% espionage
-100% espionage defense
-20% science
-40 gold for maintenance

780 = School Shootings
-4 happiness
-1 health
30 instability

750 = Asimov Tampering
-2 happiness
-1 health
30 instability

725 = Corruption
-3 happiness
-30% espionage
-80% espionage defense
-20 gold for maintenance
30 instability

700 = Murder
-3 happiness
-6 health
50 instability

650 = Weapons Trafficking
-1 happiness
-6 health
-20% military unit production
+8 crime per turn
45 instability

620 = Armed Communities
-1 happiness
-3 health
-20 crime per turn
50 instability

600 = Poaching
-2 happiness
-6 unhappiness with Paradise
-2 health
10 instability

600 = Environmental Dumping
-3 happiness
-8 health
Water Tiles -5 food
20 water pollution / turn

580 = Organ Trade
-1 happiness
-6 health
25 disease per turn
10 instability

560 = Medical Fraud
-2 happiness
-6 health
20 disease per turn
5 instability

550 = Stock Market Rigging
-2 happiness
-50 gold for maintenance
5 instability

530 = Corporate Manslaughter
-2 happiness
-6 health
-15 gold for maintenance
5 disease per turn
10 instability

525 = Rape
-3 happiness
-2 health
10 disease per turn
30 instability

520 = Child Labor
-2 happiness
-1 health
-15% science
-15% culture
5 instability

515 = Kidnapping
-3 happiness
30 instability

500 = Gangs
-3 happiness
-5 health
-10 gold for maintenance
30 instability

500 = Vigilantism
-1 happiness
-20% espionage
-5 gold for maintenance
-20 crime per turn
40 instability

475 = Bribery
-2 happiness
-20% espionage
-40% espionage defense
40 instability

460 = Military Desertion
-2 happiness
-40% military unit production
+4 crime per turn
30 instability

450 = Drugs
-2 happiness
-5 health
-30 gold for maintenance
+6 crime per turn
20 instability

425 = Black Markets
-2 happiness
-4 health
-20% commerce
-10% hammers
+6 crime per turn
25 instability

450 = Insubordination
-2 happiness
-20% military unit production
25 instability

410 = Ponzi Scheming
-2 happiness
-10% commerce
-30 gold for maintenance
10 instability

400 = Car Theft
-2 happiness
-15 gold for maintenance
5 instability

380 = Gene Forgery
-2 happiness
-15 gold for maintenance
10 instability

350 = Bank Robbery
-1 happiness
-25 gold for maintenance
10 instability

350 = Sports Riots
-2 happiness
-4 health
-10 gold for maintenance
15 instability

340 = Identity Theft
-1 happiness
-15 gold for maintenance

325 = Burglary
-2 happiness
-various gold
15 instability

310 = Racketeering
-2 happiness
-5% commerce
10 instability

300 = Fighting
-2 happiness
-3 health
20 instability

300 = Money Laundering
-2 happiness
-25 gold for maintenance
5 instability

275 = Mugging
-2 happiness
-3 health
-10 gold for maintenance
15 instability

250 = Arson
-2 happiness
-2 health
+10 flammability and air pollution
10 instability

250 = Hate Crime
-2 happiness
-2 health
-10% culture
15 instability

240 = Domestic Violence
-2 happiness
-1 health
5 instability

220 = Insider Trading
-2 happiness
-10% commerce

190 = Elder Abuse
-1 happiness
-3 health
5 instability

180 = Tax Evasion
-1 happiness
-20 gold for maintenance

175 = Illegal immigration
-2 happiness
-10% culture
+4 crime per turn

160 = Shoplifting
-1 happiness
-15 gold for maintenance

150 = Hacking
-1 happiness
-5% science
-5% espionage

140 = Extortion
-2 happiness
+2 crime per turn

130 = Car Chase
-1 happiness
-1 health
-5 gold for maintenance
5 instability

120 = Insurance Fraud
-1 happiness
-10 gold for maintenance

110 = Malware
-1 happiness
-20% espionage
-5% science
-10 gold for maintenance

100 = Counterfeiting
-1 happiness
-15 gold for maintenance

90 = Embezzlement
-1 happiness
-10 gold for maintenance

75 = Forgery
-1 happiness
-5 gold for maintenance

75 = Trespassing
-1 happiness
+2 crime per turn

70 = Blackmail
-1 happiness
+2 crime per turn

60 = Welfare Fraud
-1 happiness
-5 gold for maintenance
-5% hammers

55 = Truancy
-1 happiness
-5% science

50 = Drunk Driving
-1 happiness
-1 health
-5 gold for maintenance

50 = Sexual Harassment
-1 happiness

45 = Flashing
-1 happiness

35 = Pickpocketing
-1 happiness
-2 gold for maintenance

30 = Public Intoxication
-1 happiness
+4 crime per turn

25 = False Accusations
-1 happiness
5 instability per turn

20 = Graffiti
-1 happiness
-2 culture
-2% gold and -4% culture with Dye

10 = Cyber Bullying
-1 happiness

10 = Toilet Papering
-1 happiness

10 = Littering
-1 happiness
-1 gold for maintenance
5 water and air pollution per turn

1 = Online Piracy
+1 happiness
-2 gold for maintenance

1 = Soliciting
+1 happiness
-2 health
+5 disease per turn

 

[Hydromancerx]

@voskhod

Aside from the new ones we don't have in the mod yet I did have some questions...

1. Did you happen to see what stats they already had? Or did you just make up new stats on the spot?

1 = Soliciting
+1 happiness
-2 health
+5 disease per turn

2. Why disease and unhealthiness?

3. I won't promise everything will be exactly like you suggest but I wil take in account your ideas when I do expand the crime system.

 

[Harrier]

@voskhod
2. Why disease and unhealthiness?

A definition of soliciting.

To approach or accost someone with an offer of sexual services in return for payment.

Thus disease and unhealthiness.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That would be sexual solicitation or rather prostitution. Solicitation is generically 'the act of approaching people to request to perform services or to attempt to sell wares.'

 

[Yudishtira]

That would be sexual solicitation or rather prostitution. Solicitation is generically 'the act of approaching people to request to perform services or to attempt to sell wares.'

Your definition includes voskhod's, ie. sexual solicitation is a form of solicitation. If it is not to be included in soliciting, a new crime of prostitution must be added.

Anyway, shouldn't there be some ordinance to establish soliciting as a crime before it can be 'built'? It is annoying, but I don't like the assumption that it is always going to be considered a crime.

 

[Faustmouse]

Prostitution is only a crime if you actually ban it. Of course this is true for basically every crime, but we have prostitution ban in the game so this should be linked together.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The naming of crimes is always going to be a problem as is when they become affective.

"Child Labour" is one mentioned above, it can't be a crime until you make it a crime as before that children working is essential to the survival of the nation. After a point having them in school and learning is an engine to national wealth. As they say "the best way to turn a third world country into a first world country is to educate the children and youth of the country".

Bullying is a type of stand over/ protection racquet. Having names that make sense at both a crime level and tech level is not easy.

Sorry I am not sure where I am going with this - I am still running a fever and almost certainly have a real flu rather than just a bad cold.

 

[sp00n]

You can set your F1 (Domestic Advisor) options to display Crime. That way all you need to do is be aware of what levels Crime Buildings appear at and check F1 every now and then.

Cheers

Kind of old, but I'm currently trying to find the relevant entry for Crime in the thousands of available columns in the domestic advisor... no luck as of yet. What do I need to select to display the current crime rating and the current change rate?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Crime range was expanded from 1 to 1500. Various crimes have been moved around to different crime level requirements based on voskhod's ideas. I have not changed their stats or added new crimes yet. But I plan to.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@voskhod

Thanks for you input. Existing crimes are now MUCH more potent, thanks to you.

[Warning may destroy your empire for existing games!]

I will try to add your additional crimes at some point. Thanks again for all your cool ideas.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am working on extending the anti-crime stuff, with eventually bringing in the Bad Person mod based on Platyping's version (original RogerBacon). In particular further splitting the espionage from crime in buildings - mostly to solve the Scotland Yard problem.

As I mentioned elsewhere the idea is to have three new game actions

- National anti-Crime push, a costly effort that lasts a few turns, perhaps quarter of a golden age
- City anti-crime push, where cost is proportional to crime in the city but has a large reducing effect
- anti-crime unit mission, something to give them exp but at a risk, either acts on a Bad Person/Criminal unit in the city or acts to reduce crime by some fixed number.​

I have already come up with and tested a number of small espionage buildings and Great Spy buildings. These are mostly counter intelligence buildings so far with the national wonders being for spy training. I have also used the "Sleeper Cell" units from Sevo's Faces of God mod as special spies since the AI does know how to use them.

There will be a new set of police buildings as well which are only about policing crime. This will be various size Police Stations and Lock-ups (Jails) based on the Admin buildings since these are about admin.

I want to get a patch out this week if possible for v35 but will post these changes as tweaks in my modmods when I have enough to try out.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Added 5 new high level crimes. Specifically ...

1350 = Sectarian Violence

1320 = Rogue Mercenaries

1180 = Drug Cartels

1100 = Gang Warfare

1070 = Power Struggles

@DH

Sounds great!

This will be various size Police Stations and Lock-ups (Jails)

You now we have some various size Anti-Crime buildings. Such as in my Law Mod ...

Law Mod
- AI Surveillance (Advanced Stats)
- Bailiwick
- Chancellor's Office
- Check Point (Advanced Stats)
- Chief's Hut
- Court Chaplin's Office
- Courthouse (Advanced Stats)
- Crucifixion Crosses
- Cryogenic Prison
- Detective Agency
- Electric Chair
- Forensics Lab
- Gallows
- Great Firewall
- Guillotine
- Intelligence Agency (Advanced Stats)
- Interrogation Building (Advanced Stats)
- Law Firm
- Law School
- Lethal Injection
- Lookout Post
- Marshal's Office
- Maximum Security Prison
- Meeting Hall (Advaned Stats)
- Mind Control Center (Advanaced Stats)
- Police Academy
- Police Box
- Police Precinct
- Police Station (Advaned Stats)
- Public Stoning
- Reeducation Center (Advanced Stats)
- Safety (Great Firewall)
- Scotland Yard (Advanced Stats)
- Security Bureau (Advanced Stats)
- Security Center (Advanced Stats)
- Sentry Post
- Sheriff's Office
- Spymaster's Office
- Steward's Office
- Stocks
- Supreme Court (Advaned Stats)
- Town Patrol
- Town Watch (Advanced Stats)

Also there are things like the Prison, Jail, etc.

Building Upgrades
Pubic Stoning -> Crucifixion Crosses -> Stocks -> Gallows -> Electric Chair -> Lethal Injection -> Cryogenic Prison
Pubic Stoning -> Crucifixion Crosses -> Stocks -> Gallows -> Electric Chair -> Lethal Injection -> Orbital Prison
Jail -> Cryogenic Prison
Jai -> Orbital Prison
Maximum Security Prison -> Cryogenic Prison
Maximum Security Prison -> Orbital Prison

In fact the Police Station itself has many buildings it unlocks. Much like how the University unlocks many types of Labs.

 

[God-Emperor]

Kind of old, but I'm currently trying to find the relevant entry for Crime in the thousands of available columns in the domestic advisor... no luck as of yet. What do I need to select to display the current crime rating and the current change rate?

I always add a page to the domestic advisor to show all the property levels and changes in my cities.

They are under the names PROPERTY_x, like PROPERTY_CRIME and PROPERTY_CRIME_CHANGE. They are all the way down at the end of the list.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In fact the Police Station itself has many buildings it unlocks. Much like how the University unlocks many types of Labs.

All passive. I want some active stuff to do. The buildings will unlock missions for your crime fighters/city/empire to do. If you have a foreign crime unit in your city/fort your crime fighter should be able to capture/kill/expel it with some risk to self just like combat but both units will be on the same plot. Once I get a prototype up and working in python I am sure that we will get better feed back and ideas.

 

[AIAndy]

Added 5 new high level crimes. Specifically ...

1350 = Sectarian Violence

1320 = Rogue Mercenaries

1180 = Drug Cartels

1100 = Gang Warfare

1070 = Power Struggles

Mind that you need to change the operational range of the crime property to fit with the new maximum (the AI needs that).
And you might also want to check and tweak the iAIWeight to make sure the AI properly values the property (as the AI has no understanding of the connection between a property level and its auto-built buildings although I guess that is something that could eventually be implemented to make the property handling considerably more accurate).

 

[Thunderbrd]

All passive. I want some active stuff to do. The buildings will unlock missions for your crime fighters/city/empire to do. If you have a foreign crime unit in your city/fort your crime fighter should be able to capture/kill/expel it with some risk to self just like combat but both units will be on the same plot. Once I get a prototype up and working in python I am sure that we will get better feed back and ideas.

You realize this mechanism has been a goal of mine for over a year and has actually been at one time the next thing to do right? lol...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You realize this mechanism has been a goal of mine for over a year and has actually been at one time the next thing to do right? lol...

My cunning plan has been thwarted. Not really! I was just going to get the prototype done in python so that latter you or someone else could code the "crime fighting combat" module and we would already have the UI. Basically, prod you into action