Crime Revisited

[JosEPh_II]

I'm going thru the xml files that relate to crime.

I was asked what my take on crime would be as I have not been a fan of this property since it's inception. I'm finding that Rwn's table in the Strategy and Tips subforum is missing quite a bit of info. The files are really a mish mash and are hard to sort out and understand. But I'm going to give it a try.

So this is the OP to what may become another Modmod. That is my intention.

As I sort thru the CIV4PropertyInfos xml and SpecialBuildings_CIV4BuildingdInfos xml I will post my findings.

One thing that strikes me as odd (and I'm trying to wrap my head around it) is why some of the <iMinValue> in the CIV4PropertyInfos are so high. (Has anyone really ever let their Crime levels reach 1300+?)

I also feel that the 84 CrimeBuildings have some really odd entries as well.

Almost all give either or both <iHappiness>, <iHealth>, but many also include other Properties like Disease, Flammability, Crime, Pollution. And still others add <iYield> and <iCommerce> values along with BonusCommerceModifiers that have a laundry list of Bonus Resources that get penalties. One alone has 16 Bonus Resources that give <iCommerce>-1 (1st iCommerce which is Gold). Almost all these <iXXXXX> values are -X, but strangely several are +X (Mistakes in typing?)

More to follow.

EDIT: 1st working version of Crime Modmod. It also includes both my Pests and Disease modmods. Place it in the Assets\Modules\My_Mods folder

I will attempt to post a Change log, sort of, later.

EDIT: New version Crime v1.3. After unraring rename to Crime and place in Assets\Modules\My_Mods folder. Contains recent SVN changes.

EDIT 2: Updated version Crime v1.31 with some xml errors fixed, and Crime levels adjusted further. Example bench mark crime Murder with minCrime level 700 reduced to 500. Range reduced from 10 to 1000 down to 10 to 700.
Warning: if you let crime hit the 600+ range you will have a serious problem. These upper level Crimes still have some very strong Malus that I am still working on.

Still have Crimes to move to different Prereq techs as Preh, Ind, and Modern Eras have too many. And Ancient, Med, Ren, and TH have too little. This will most likely be area addressed in next version.

Thank you for your patience. Feed back always welcome.

EDIT:The Modmod is now being incorporated into the Main Mod

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

I will be using Rwn's Table to expound upon as I gather more details.

Prereq tech|Min Crime|Crime||||%|%|%|%|%|%
|515|Crime (Kidnapping)||-3|||||||
|525|Crime (Rape)|-2|-3|||||||
|700|Crime (Murder)|-6|-3|||||||
Scavenging|275|Crime (Mugging)|-3|-2|-10||||||
Shelter Building|325|Crime (Burglary)||-2|-5||||||
Cultural Identity|1350|Crime (Sectarian Violence)|-40|-20|||||||
Personal Adornment|35|Crime (Pickpocketing)||-1|-1||||||
Personal Adornment|340|Crime (Identity Theft)||-1|-15||||||
Barter|160|Crime (Shoplifting)||-1|-2||||||
Warfare|300|Crime (Fighting)|-3|-2|||||||
Barter|475|Crime (Bribery)||-2|||||||-20
Warfare|500|Crime (Gangs)|-5|-3|-10||||||
Warfare|920|Crime (Looting)||-3|-50|-20|||||
Warfare|1050|Crime (Rioting)|-20|-8|-50|-30|-30||||
Warfare|1100|Crime (Gang Warfare)|-12|-4|||||||
Fire Making|250|Crime (Arson)|-2|-2|||||||
Chiefdom|1070|Crime (Power Struggles)|-2|-4|||||||
Conduct|725|Crime (Corruption)||-3|-20||||||-30
Trade|1|Crime (Soliciting)||-2|||||||
Fermentation|30|Crime (Public Intoxication)||-1|||||||
Trade|425|Crime (Black Markets)|-4|-2||-10|-20||||
Oratory|25|Crime (False Accusations)||-1|||||||
Writing|75|Crime (Forgery)||-1|-5||||||
Currency|70|Crime (Blackmail)||-1|||||||
Currency|100|Crime (Counterfeiting)||-1|-15||||||
Currency|140|Crime (Extortion)||-2|||||||
Alphabet|175|Crime (Illegal Immigration)||-2||||||-10|
Military Training|460|Crime (Military Desertion)||-2|||||||
Currency|1320|Crime (Rogue Mercenaries)||-4|||||||
Code of Laws|500|Crime (Vigilantism)||1|-5||||||-20
Drug Trade|450|Crime (Drugs)|-5|-2|-30||||||
Drug Trade|1180|Crime (Drug Cartels)|-30|-12|||||||
Sanitation|10|Crime (Littering)|-1|-1|-1||||||
Aesthetics|20|Crime (Graffiti)||-1|||||||
Insurance|120|Crime (Insurance Fraud)||-1|-10||||||
Papacy|42|Crime (Flashing)||-1|||||||
Usury|90|Crime (Embezzlement)||-1|-10||||||
Usury|180|Crime (Tax Evasion)||-1|-20||||||
Surveying|75|Crime (Tresspassing)||-1|||||||
Banking|350|Crime (Bank Robbery)|-2|-1|-25||||||
Matchlock|620|Crime (Armed Communities)|-3|-1|||||||
Corporation|300|Crime (Money Laundering)||-2|-25||||||
Corporation|530|Crime (Corporate Manslaughter)|-6|-2|-15||||||
Stock Brokering|220|Crime (Insider Trading)||-2|||-10||||
Stock Brokering|550|Crime (Stock Market Rigging)||-2|-50||||||
Constitution|900|Crime (Prison Breakouts)||-3|||||||
Emancipation|1000|Crime (Human Trafficking)|-4|-6|||||||
Military Tradition|450|Crime (Insubordination)||-2|||||||
Wildlife Conservation|600|Crime (Poaching)|-2|-2|||||||
Modern Sanitation|10|Crime (Toilet Papering)||-1|||||||
Labor Union|60|Crime (Welfare Fraud)||-1|-5||||||
Labor Union|310|Crime (Racketeering)||-2|||-5||||
Labor Union|520|Crime (Child Labor)|-1|-2|||||-15|-15|
Semi-Automatic Weapons|840|Crime (Gun Rampage)|-3|-6|||||||
Women's Suffrage|50|Crime (Sexual Harassment)||-1|||||||
Women's Suffrage|240|Crime (Domestic Violence)|-1|-2|||||||
Motorized Transportation|50|Crime (Drunk Driving)|-1|-1|-5||||||
Motorized Transportation|130|Crime (Car Chase)|-1|-1|-5||||||
Motorized Transportation|400|Crime (Car Theft)||-2|-15||||||
Motorized Transportation|1125|Crime (Car Bombing)|-3|-4|-5||||||
Compulsory Education|55|Crime (Truancy)||-1|||||-5||
Flight|1300|Crime (Aircraft Hijacking)|-4|-8|-10||||||
Automatic Weapons|650|Crime (Weapons Trafficking)|-6|-1|||||||
Automatic Weapons|950|Crime (Organized Crime)|-8|-6|-10||||||-20
Applied Economics|410|Crime (Ponzi Schemes)||-2|-30||-10||||
Modern Health Care|190|Crime (Elder Abuse)|-3|-1|||||||
Modern Health Care|560|Crime (Medical Fraud)|-6|-2|-10||||||
Modern Health Care|580|Crime (Organ Trafficking)|-6|-1|||||||
Personal Computers|150|Crime (Hacking)||-1||||-5||-5|-5
Minority Rights|250|Crime (Hate Crime)|-2|-2||||||-10|
Ecology|200|Crime (Animal Abuse)||-1|||||||
Ecology|600|Crime (Environmental Dumping)|-8|-3|||||||
Modern Sports|350|Crime (Sports Riots)|-4|-2|-10||||||
Fiber Optics|15|Crime (Online Piracy)||1|-2||||||
Fiber Optics|100|Crime (Internet Fraud)||-1|-10||||||
Genetics|380|Crime (Gene Forgery)||-2|-15||||||
Urban Culture|780|Crime (School Shootings)|-3|-4|||||||
Cloud Computing|15|Crime (Malware)||-1|-10||||-5||-20
Cloning|870|Crime (Unlicensed Cloning)|-2|-4|||||-10||
Online Community|10|Crime (Cyberbullying)||-1|||||||
Cyberwarfare|820|Crime (Cyberwarfare)||-2|-40||||-20||-100
Personal Robots|750|Crime (Asimov Tampering)|-1|-2|||||||
Mind Uploading|1280|Crime (Illegal Brainwashing)|-2|-6|||||||-200
Time Travel|1500|Crime (Timeline Tampering)||-20||||-50|-50|-50|-50

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My main problem with crime has always been that the view of them is taken from a modern perspective. Another problem is that the individual crimes don't evolve with your society.

 

[JosEPh_II]

My main problem with crime has always been that the view of them is taken from a modern perspective.

I agree. There should be Core crimes that fit any Era.

Another problem is that the individual crimes don't evolve with your society.

Not sure what you mean on this. And not sure how to make a crime evolve with your society either.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

One stand-out oddity is "identity theft" at Personal Adornment. Even if we assume that that was a crime then, it seems just a bit odd to swipe someone's jewellery and to pretend to be them. That might work for signet rings, but that's the only plausible reason I can see.

Is it possible to stop crime (and disease etc.) going negative? I don't see that there's any point to any negative property (except perhaps crime and that's rather tenuous).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The easiest example I can think of at the moment is the code of conduct with regards to warfare. At one stage kidnapping and enslaving your enemies is encouraged as society evolves the code of conduct says it is not right to menace or attack civilians as it hampers the recovery and value of the conquered lands. Then there are the war tactics that say you should kill everyone bar 10 people in a city that does not surrender to you. Then set those 10 free near the next set of cities you plan to conquer. If they surrender they live.

Sorry I am a bit vague. In the above cases it is the crime of your opponent that affects your nation not your nation.

Kidnapping others or duffing their livestock is OK but doing it to your people/livestock isn't. Then later it isn't, probably based on national relationships.

 

[JosEPh_II]

One stand-out oddity is "identity theft" at Personal Adornment. Even if we assume that that was a crime then, it seems just a bit odd to swipe someone's jewellery and to pretend to be them. That might work for signet rings, but that's the only plausible reason I can see.

Is it possible to stop crime (and disease etc.) going negative? I don't see that there's any point to any negative property (except perhaps crime and that's rather tenuous).

Another is Armed Communities at Matchlock. And it gives:

<!-- Properties diffusion -->
<PropertyManipulators>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
<iAmountPerTurn>-20</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
</PropertyManipulators>

While Blackmail gives:

<!-- Properties diffusion -->
<PropertyManipulators>
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_CRIME</PropertyType>
<iAmountPerTurn>2</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>
</PropertyManipulators>

Most that have the PROPERTY_CRIME have positive <iAmountPerTurn> values.

But as to stopping "-" crime levels, since it's an integer value <iAmount.... then from what i know of xml it goes both positive and negative. I don't know how to stop the negative from happening.

JosEPh

 

[Harrier]

Is it possible to stop crime (and disease etc.) going negative? I don't see that there's any point to any negative property (except perhaps crime and that's rather tenuous).

Should be a simple coding change.

if crime < 0
crime = 0.

 

[sunrisereader]

negative crime can be usefull in very specific cases, like when founding a new town you send your current town guards(or other units that reduce crime) to the new town and building new ones negative crime prefents bad effects from crime in the rounds it takes to build the new town guards

 

[JosEPh_II]

Should be a simple coding change.

if crime < 0
crime = 0.

Can that be done in xml, An If, Then type statement? IDK.

JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

<snip>

Is it possible to stop crime (and disease etc.) going negative? I don't see that there's any point to any negative property (except perhaps crime and that's rather tenuous).

Have been thinking about this and I'm leaning towards continued allowing of going negative. Why? Because it actually helps create a buffer for when other parts of the game are more important in that time frame. If you've been able to get into the negative range then you can be more focused in other parts, particularly (but not all inclusively) during war. You don't have to keep spending resources/production/building ques placements on Crime, Disease, etc. maintenance. You can instead build units, fortifications, and production boosting buildings.

If you allow it to go only to 0, then you have no real buffer and it will climb into the major problem status much more quickly.

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

Personally, I think having one fewer property (i.e. one pollution type, rather than two) would save on turn times far more than not having negative properties, so go ahead.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Should be a simple coding change.

if crime < 0
crime = 0.

Except of course we don't code that way any more. Crime is a Property and we code for Properties based on what is defined in the XML for each property. There is an Operational Range but no Absolute Range in the XML.

 

[Harrier]

Can that be done in xml, An If, Then type statement? IDK.

JosEPh

Doubt it. It probably needs C++. But I am not sure about that.

 

[Harrier]

Except of course we don't code that way any more. Crime is a Property and we code for Properties based on what is defined in the XML for each property. There is an Operational Range but no Absolute Range in the XML.

Well I was just using a psuedo code example, assuming some of the code was based in the C++ part of the coding. Sorry.

 

[Thunderbrd]

AIAndy and I discussed a 0 hard limit on an energy property we were looking at setting up. He at first said it would be impossible to get the system to work mathematically and then rethought and considered how it could be done. He shared that with me and I've still got the pms explaining it. But it's a very difficult programming project to enable it and I think Joe's 100% right about the reasons to allow crime and disease to go negative. I can see more reasons for it in the future if I ever get the advanced disease and crime mechanism working too.

But energy made too much sense to limit at 0 and wouldn't work right if we couldn't so someday I may try to follow his instructions on setting it up as a possible option for a property.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Questions to all:

How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

I take action against crime wherever possible that doesn't drain my treasury, take too many turns to enact or doesn't distract from more important issues, such as starvation or war.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I take action against crime wherever possible that doesn't drain my treasury, take too many turns to enact or doesn't distract from more important issues, such as starvation or war.

So in general what levels do you usually have? Re- tolerate?

JosEPh

 

[Arakhor]

In my current early Renaissance game on Noble/Prince difficulty, I have 19 cities, thirteen of which have negative crime. My capital has 366 and that's the highest.

As for disease though (without your modmod), only three have negative disease and eleven have 1000 or higher, with my capital at over 2000.