1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Crime Revisited

Discussion in 'C2C mod mods' started by JosEPh_II, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    I'm going thru the xml files that relate to crime.

    I was asked what my take on crime would be as I have not been a fan of this property since it's inception. I'm finding that Rwn's table in the Strategy and Tips subforum is missing quite a bit of info. The files are really a mish mash and are hard to sort out and understand. But I'm going to give it a try.

    So this is the OP to what may become another Modmod. That is my intention.

    As I sort thru the CIV4PropertyInfos xml and SpecialBuildings_CIV4BuildingdInfos xml I will post my findings.

    One thing that strikes me as odd (and I'm trying to wrap my head around it) is why some of the <iMinValue> in the CIV4PropertyInfos are so high. (Has anyone really ever let their Crime levels reach 1300+?)

    I also feel that the 84 CrimeBuildings have some really odd entries as well.

    Almost all give either or both <iHappiness>, <iHealth>, but many also include other Properties like Disease, Flammability, Crime, Pollution. And still others add <iYield> and <iCommerce> values along with BonusCommerceModifiers that have a laundry list of Bonus Resources that get penalties. One alone has 16 Bonus Resources that give <iCommerce>-1 (1st iCommerce which is Gold). Almost all these <iXXXXX> values are -X, but strangely several are +X (Mistakes in typing?)

    More to follow.

    EDIT: 1st working version of Crime Modmod. It also includes both my Pests and Disease modmods. Place it in the Assets\Modules\My_Mods folder

    I will attempt to post a Change log, sort of, later.

    EDIT: New version Crime v1.3. After unraring rename to Crime and place in Assets\Modules\My_Mods folder. Contains recent SVN changes.

    EDIT 2: Updated version Crime v1.31 with some xml errors fixed, and Crime levels adjusted further. Example bench mark crime Murder with minCrime level 700 reduced to 500. Range reduced from 10 to 1000 down to 10 to 700.
    Warning: if you let crime hit the 600+ range you will have a serious problem. These upper level Crimes still have some very strong Malus that I am still working on.

    Still have Crimes to move to different Prereq techs as Preh, Ind, and Modern Eras have too many. And Ancient, Med, Ren, and TH have too little. This will most likely be area addressed in next version.

    Thank you for your patience. Feed back always welcome.
    :)

    EDIT:The Modmod is now being incorporated into the Main Mod

    JosEPh
     
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    I will be using Rwn's Table to expound upon as I gather more details.
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4 Column 5 Column 6 Column 7 Column 8 Column 9 Column 10 Column 11 Column 12
    Prereq tech Min Crime Crime :health: :) :gold: %:hammers: %:commerce: %:gold: %:science: %:culture: %:espionage:
    515 Crime (Kidnapping) -3
    525 Crime (Rape) -2 -3
    700 Crime (Murder) -6 -3
    Scavenging 275 Crime (Mugging) -3 -2 -10
    Shelter Building 325 Crime (Burglary) -2 -5
    Cultural Identity 1350 Crime (Sectarian Violence) -40 -20
    Personal Adornment 35 Crime (Pickpocketing) -1 -1
    Personal Adornment 340 Crime (Identity Theft) -1 -15
    Barter 160 Crime (Shoplifting) -1 -2
    Warfare 300 Crime (Fighting) -3 -2
    Barter 475 Crime (Bribery) -2 -20
    Warfare 500 Crime (Gangs) -5 -3 -10
    Warfare 920 Crime (Looting) -3 -50 -20
    Warfare 1050 Crime (Rioting) -20 -8 -50 -30 -30
    Warfare 1100 Crime (Gang Warfare) -12 -4
    Fire Making 250 Crime (Arson) -2 -2
    Chiefdom 1070 Crime (Power Struggles) -2 -4
    Conduct 725 Crime (Corruption) -3 -20 -30
    Trade 1 Crime (Soliciting) -2
    Fermentation 30 Crime (Public Intoxication) -1
    Trade 425 Crime (Black Markets) -4 -2 -10 -20
    Oratory 25 Crime (False Accusations) -1
    Writing 75 Crime (Forgery) -1 -5
    Currency 70 Crime (Blackmail) -1
    Currency 100 Crime (Counterfeiting) -1 -15
    Currency 140 Crime (Extortion) -2
    Alphabet 175 Crime (Illegal Immigration) -2 -10
    Military Training 460 Crime (Military Desertion) -2
    Currency 1320 Crime (Rogue Mercenaries) -4
    Code of Laws 500 Crime (Vigilantism) 1 -5 -20
    Drug Trade 450 Crime (Drugs) -5 -2 -30
    Drug Trade 1180 Crime (Drug Cartels) -30 -12
    Sanitation 10 Crime (Littering) -1 -1 -1
    Aesthetics 20 Crime (Graffiti) -1
    Insurance 120 Crime (Insurance Fraud) -1 -10
    Papacy 42 Crime (Flashing) -1
    Usury 90 Crime (Embezzlement) -1 -10
    Usury 180 Crime (Tax Evasion) -1 -20
    Surveying 75 Crime (Tresspassing) -1
    Banking 350 Crime (Bank Robbery) -2 -1 -25
    Matchlock 620 Crime (Armed Communities) -3 -1
    Corporation 300 Crime (Money Laundering) -2 -25
    Corporation 530 Crime (Corporate Manslaughter) -6 -2 -15
    Stock Brokering 220 Crime (Insider Trading) -2 -10
    Stock Brokering 550 Crime (Stock Market Rigging) -2 -50
    Constitution 900 Crime (Prison Breakouts) -3
    Emancipation 1000 Crime (Human Trafficking) -4 -6
    Military Tradition 450 Crime (Insubordination) -2
    Wildlife Conservation 600 Crime (Poaching) -2 -2
    Modern Sanitation 10 Crime (Toilet Papering) -1
    Labor Union 60 Crime (Welfare Fraud) -1 -5
    Labor Union 310 Crime (Racketeering) -2 -5
    Labor Union 520 Crime (Child Labor) -1 -2 -15 -15
    Semi-Automatic Weapons 840 Crime (Gun Rampage) -3 -6
    Women's Suffrage 50 Crime (Sexual Harassment) -1
    Women's Suffrage 240 Crime (Domestic Violence) -1 -2
    Motorized Transportation 50 Crime (Drunk Driving) -1 -1 -5
    Motorized Transportation 130 Crime (Car Chase) -1 -1 -5
    Motorized Transportation 400 Crime (Car Theft) -2 -15
    Motorized Transportation 1125 Crime (Car Bombing) -3 -4 -5
    Compulsory Education 55 Crime (Truancy) -1 -5
    Flight 1300 Crime (Aircraft Hijacking) -4 -8 -10
    Automatic Weapons 650 Crime (Weapons Trafficking) -6 -1
    Automatic Weapons 950 Crime (Organized Crime) -8 -6 -10 -20
    Applied Economics 410 Crime (Ponzi Schemes) -2 -30 -10
    Modern Health Care 190 Crime (Elder Abuse) -3 -1
    Modern Health Care 560 Crime (Medical Fraud) -6 -2 -10
    Modern Health Care 580 Crime (Organ Trafficking) -6 -1
    Personal Computers 150 Crime (Hacking) -1 -5 -5 -5
    Minority Rights 250 Crime (Hate Crime) -2 -2 -10
    Ecology 200 Crime (Animal Abuse) -1
    Ecology 600 Crime (Environmental Dumping) -8 -3
    Modern Sports 350 Crime (Sports Riots) -4 -2 -10
    Fiber Optics 15 Crime (Online Piracy) 1 -2
    Fiber Optics 100 Crime (Internet Fraud) -1 -10
    Genetics 380 Crime (Gene Forgery) -2 -15
    Urban Culture 780 Crime (School Shootings) -3 -4
    Cloud Computing 15 Crime (Malware) -1 -10 -5 -20
    Cloning 870 Crime (Unlicensed Cloning) -2 -4 -10
    Online Community 10 Crime (Cyberbullying) -1
    Cyberwarfare 820 Crime (Cyberwarfare) -2 -40 -20 -100
    Personal Robots 750 Crime (Asimov Tampering) -1 -2
    Mind Uploading 1280 Crime (Illegal Brainwashing) -2 -6 -200
    Time Travel 1500 Crime (Timeline Tampering) -20 -50 -50 -50 -50


    JosEPh
     
  3. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    22,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    My main problem with crime has always been that the view of them is taken from a modern perspective. Another problem is that the individual crimes don't evolve with your society.
     
  4. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    I agree. There should be Core crimes that fit any Era.


    Not sure what you mean on this. And not sure how to make a crime evolve with your society either.

    JosEPh
     
  5. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    30,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    One stand-out oddity is "identity theft" at Personal Adornment. Even if we assume that that was a crime then, it seems just a bit odd to swipe someone's jewellery and to pretend to be them. That might work for signet rings, but that's the only plausible reason I can see.

    Is it possible to stop crime (and disease etc.) going negative? I don't see that there's any point to any negative property (except perhaps crime and that's rather tenuous).
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    22,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    The easiest example I can think of at the moment is the code of conduct with regards to warfare. At one stage kidnapping and enslaving your enemies is encouraged as society evolves the code of conduct says it is not right to menace or attack civilians as it hampers the recovery and value of the conquered lands. Then there are the war tactics that say you should kill everyone bar 10 people in a city that does not surrender to you. Then set those 10 free near the next set of cities you plan to conquer. If they surrender they live.

    Sorry I am a bit vague. In the above cases it is the crime of your opponent that affects your nation not your nation.

    Kidnapping others or duffing their livestock is OK but doing it to your people/livestock isn't. Then later it isn't, probably based on national relationships.
     
  7. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Another is Armed Communities at Matchlock. And it gives:

    While Blackmail gives:

    Most that have the PROPERTY_CRIME have positive <iAmountPerTurn> values.

    But as to stopping "-" crime levels, since it's an integer value <iAmount.... then from what i know of xml it goes both positive and negative. I don't know how to stop the negative from happening.

    JosEPh
     
  8. Harrier

    Harrier Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,345
    Location:
    UK
    Should be a simple coding change.

    if crime < 0
    crime = 0.
     
  9. sunrisereader

    sunrisereader Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    136
    negative crime can be usefull in very specific cases, like when founding a new town you send your current town guards(or other units that reduce crime) to the new town and building new ones negative crime prefents bad effects from crime in the rounds it takes to build the new town guards
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Can that be done in xml, An If, Then type statement? IDK.

    JosEPh
     
  11. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Have been thinking about this and I'm leaning towards continued allowing of going negative. Why? Because it actually helps create a buffer for when other parts of the game are more important in that time frame. If you've been able to get into the negative range then you can be more focused in other parts, particularly (but not all inclusively) during war. You don't have to keep spending resources/production/building ques placements on Crime, Disease, etc. maintenance. You can instead build units, fortifications, and production boosting buildings.

    If you allow it to go only to 0, then you have no real buffer and it will climb into the major problem status much more quickly.

    JosEPh
     
  12. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    30,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Personally, I think having one fewer property (i.e. one pollution type, rather than two) would save on turn times far more than not having negative properties, so go ahead.
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    22,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Except of course we don't code that way any more:p. Crime is a Property and we code for Properties based on what is defined in the XML for each property. There is an Operational Range but no Absolute Range in the XML.
     
  14. Harrier

    Harrier Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,345
    Location:
    UK
    Doubt it. It probably needs C++. But I am not sure about that.
     
  15. Harrier

    Harrier Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,345
    Location:
    UK
    Well I was just using a psuedo code example, assuming some of the code was based in the C++ part of the coding. Sorry. :blush:
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    24,738
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    AIAndy and I discussed a 0 hard limit on an energy property we were looking at setting up. He at first said it would be impossible to get the system to work mathematically and then rethought and considered how it could be done. He shared that with me and I've still got the pms explaining it. But it's a very difficult programming project to enable it and I think Joe's 100% right about the reasons to allow crime and disease to go negative. I can see more reasons for it in the future if I ever get the advanced disease and crime mechanism working too.

    But energy made too much sense to limit at 0 and wouldn't work right if we couldn't so someday I may try to follow his instructions on setting it up as a possible option for a property.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Questions to all:

    How many of you ever let your Crime level reach 1,000? Or even 500?

    When do you start to take action (what level) against crime?

    JosEPh
     
  18. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    30,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    I take action against crime wherever possible that doesn't drain my treasury, take too many turns to enact or doesn't distract from more important issues, such as starvation or war.
     
  19. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    14,963
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    So in general what levels do you usually have? Re- tolerate?

    JosEPh
     
  20. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Messages:
    30,819
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    In my current early Renaissance game on Noble/Prince difficulty, I have 19 cities, thirteen of which have negative crime. My capital has 366 and that's the highest.

    As for disease though (without your modmod), only three have negative disease and eleven have 1000 or higher, with my capital at over 2000.
     

Share This Page