Cristo Redentor

[CivEikka]

Using Cristo Redentor / Spies strategy is too OP, with separatisms. As you can build endless spies, breaking the other civ is easy:

1. When you discover the best opponent(s) invesnt in espionage for those
2. while investing, get to Cristo Redentor ASAP
3. plant 5-7 spies per enemy city you want to flip
4. Change YOUR civics to Chiefdom/CivilService/Slavery/PastoralNomadism/Militancy (Usually the "worst civic" combo by the time Cristo Redentor is relevant, when factoring stability of empire..
5. Change OPPONENT civics to those + cause unhappiness/unhealthiness into as many cities as you can.
6. be sure to save game because crash can be imminient.
7. Change your civics back to what they used to be.
8. watch opponent lose 50-70% of their points due rebellion.

9. go to step 3

Way more efficient than warfare, as you only hurt diplo relations with one civ + usually the civ which is being crushed by rebellion can't get up there.

I thought of following ideas:
1. Change of the Cristo Redentor wonder, for example -5 separatism in all cities (would be still a rather good wonder, but not as broken.)
2. Increase cost (or eliminate civic change possibilities all together) of spies
3. Decrease the propabilitiy of civic change (now it is 50%-80%).
4. Spy limit back


I usually play on Legendary speed. This post applies to SVN 5260.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

I think I'll applaud your creative use of the wonder instead.

As this can't happen by chance, and the strategy you described has to be actively pursued, it's up to an individual player if they want to use it. It's not like my goal is to prevent people from winning - after all, anyone can just open WorldBuilder and give themselves unlimited stuff. Moreover, what you describe doesn't even require that particular late-game wonder, just Spiritual trait. My policy is not to fix clever exploits unless they can happen by chance (as was the case with Motherland Calls) - people finding those get to feel clever and have fun, and can choose not to use them if they want to play fair.

 

[CivEikka]

I think I'll applaud your creative use of the wonder instead.

As this can't happen by chance, and the strategy you described has to be actively pursued, it's up to an individual player if they want to use it. It's not like my goal is to prevent people from winning - after all, anyone can just open WorldBuilder and give themselves unlimited stuff. Moreover, what you describe doesn't even require that particular late-game wonder, just Spiritual trait.

Well true to that. But the spiritual trait is not THAT overpowered, as Cristo Redentor allows for 1 turn switches, where Spiritual still has to wait between civic changes.
For large empires the tactic is not so good: If the game has 1 empire with you which are about even in score (all the rest are small..), and you use this tactic.. Well you screw yourself with separatism as well. (though for the latest SVN it seems to be changed..).

But yeah, been playing this mod for years and for this separatism the CR wonder just got buffed. I appriciate what you have done and respect your ideas.

 

[Soupy Delicious]

If the tactic is too powerful and easy to effect- a 'win-every-time' scenario- then it's not really healthy to leave it in the game :\. Man, I gotta start lookin into how to change horsehocky like this

 

[NimmyJewtron21]

hey, you can change the both the anarchy length and civic change cooldown if you go into World_Wonders_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml and search 'Cristo'


<iAnarchyModifier>-100</iAnarchyModifier> this is what controls both. -100 means it reduces anarchy change to minimum effects like the wonder text says. but i dont know how to change it so it leaves the effects of spiritual trait, but add a few turns of cooldown between civic change

 

[NimmyJewtron21]

did some testing and changing <iAnarchyModifier>-100</iAnarchyModifier> to -55 is a really good solution.

Changing 1 civic in a turn will still yield no anarchy, and 1 turn cooldown.

Changing 2 will yield 1 turn anarchy and 1 turn cooldown.

Changing 3+ will yield 1 anarchy & 2 turns cooldown.

(sorry for double post, wouldnt let me edit comment)

 

[onefinneday]

Better to just remove "Influence Civics" as a spy operation, because it's stupid.

 

[CivEikka2]

For people reading this in current time, CR is moved way back into tech tree (end of ind/early modern era), so this tactic is no longer as relevant as it once were.