Crossroads of the World and Right to Rule DLC - themed predictions based on what we know

What do you think the other civs will get as wonders

Was ruminating on this a bit last night with some others:
  • Silla has a number of options, I'm partial to Cheomseongdae myself, but there's Bunhwangsa, Bulguksa, Donggung Palace...
  • Assyria could get the Library of Ashurbanipal?
  • Dai Viet could have one of the Imperial Citadels (Thang Long or Hue)
  • Nepal could have Hanuman Dhoka, Dharahara, or I think Kumari Ghar was suggested here as well?
  • Qajar could have Golestan Palace, Takyeh Dawlat, or Nasir-ol-Molk Mosque
  • Bulgaria could have the Boyana Church or Rila Monastery
 
But what if Assyria and Silla are an exception
We haven’t seen any indication or hints of that, while Ed’s statement seems pretty straightforward so far - so I wouldn’t go too deep into such a theory yet. Last time a folk went down this path of reasoning, we ended up with a rollercoaster theory of 60 civs at launch.

Pepe_Silvia.jpg
 
* Silla (exploration -yes, I am betting this is exploration and not antiquity so that Japan has a better path until they add more civs to the region). Also exploration Korea is most iconic Korea.)
Other than what people have said before, I don't think Firaxis is placing civs specifically for other civs to have easier paths (otherwise Hawaii and Inca would not be in base game). They're targeting civs specifically, and classifying them roughly with the civ's timeline and cultural role.

This is Firaxis's reasoning for where each civ goes where (the comment is specifically why Khmer is in Antiquity), and I think Antiquity fits Silla most here.

Great comment, u/jalapisa! On identifying Ages, we sought to capture and represent general historical trends that were happening roughly around the same time period. One thing we didn't want to do was have the events of the Mediterranean dictate a calendar for the rest of the world. So if we were to summarize some general processes within each Age:

Antiquity is characterized by competition between states and non-state regions around them – the “blank spaces” on the map. It is a time of city-building, of universalism and expansion, where states claim a mantle of absolute authority. This is the time when states claim to represent the heavens, and that their language is the one true one.

Exploration is a time of vernacularization – when these prior empires split into fragments of the former whole, and where local innovations alter what was there before. It is a time when universal religions rise to suture this gap, but where interconnections – especially global interconnections – come to define states.

Modernity is a retrenchment of empire. Here, modern and scientific thought, bureaucracy, has replaced or fused with notions of divine right, and empires are increasingly seeking to understand, catalog, control, and apportion their subjects.

In that way, Khmer was a better fit for Antiquity – early Khmer was continually expanding into non-state lands, the building and establishment of cities and the construction of a mandala state - a center-oriented city that sought to bring the cosmos into orbit around itself. In creating this gravitational/civilizational pull, Khmer cast itself as a universal center for civilization – something which resonates much more with Antiquity states elsewhere.

Importantly, there are also excellent descendants in the region that are doing very Exploration Age related things - so having Khmer in Antiquity allows us to create a more solid throughline for Southeast Asia.
 
What do you think the other civs will get as wonders
Speculation is always fun.
My bets:

Bulgaria: Preslav Round Church
Nepal: Boudhanath Stupa

Assyria: Palace of Ashurbanipal
Dai Viet: Thiên Mụ Temple
Qajar: Golestan Palace
Silla: Hwangnyongsa
 
* Bulgaria (exploration - I'm very glad it's here and I guess it works as a Russia path, but I'm surprised Byzantium didn't make it first. Maybe it is coming first specifically to justify itself without Byzantium crowding it out. It could be modern, but I feel like Bulgaria's stronger identity is in the exploration era.)
Bulgaria fits better than Byzantium as a cultural intermediary between Greece and Russia. Rus took the Cyrillic alphabet (based on the Greek alphabet) and monks from the Bulgarians, not from the Greeks or Byzantium directly.
 
Getting two Assyrian wonders warms my heart. Assyria deserves it.
3 if you count the Hanging Gardens. :mischief:

And yeah Sills is guaranteed to be in Antiquity. Emile Bell is already in that age as a wonder and surely you would be able to build that as Silla, as well as whatever associated wonder they get.
 
Your prediction would make our end count 12/14/13, which I find unlikely. Plus, Silla is currently an IP in Antiquity.

I have always anticipated fewer antiquity civs proportionally since they seem to be serving as "wellfonts," for branching out of cultures, at least until the devs are able to add in more civs.

And as a matter of simply having a lot more options to choose from as compared to modern (which involved a lot of regional consolidation), I have also expected a slight bulge for exploration civs.

So this count seems fair to me.

Some more thoughts:

1. Developers told about Carthage similarity with Civ5 Venice, so I guess they are "one city" civ we've speculated earlier. Could be fun.

2. I guess both Assyria and Silla will reuse their associated wonders already in the game and the game will just add more wonders. Maybe that's the reason why wonders were listed separately all the time for RtR.

I was a bit curious about how they would manage to implement Venice (which I do think if we get exploration Italy it will be Venice, or possibly Genoa), if it didn't have good one-city antiquity and modern options. Carthage and/or Phoenicia seemed like a pretty solid antiquity partner that could be one-city-ish, so I'm not mad about that.

I'm curious what the modern civ may end up being. The Vatican is still a superpower, arguably more than it was in earlier centuries. Or maybe Switzerland.

Other than what people have said before, I don't think Firaxis is placing civs specifically for other civs to have easier paths (otherwise Hawaii and Inca would not be in base game). They're targeting civs specifically, and classifying them roughly with the civ's timeline and cultural role.

This is Firaxis's reasoning for where each civ goes where (the comment is specifically why Khmer is in Antiquity), and I think Antiquity fits Silla most here.

Great comment, u/jalapisa! On identifying Ages, we sought to capture and represent general historical trends that were happening roughly around the same time period. One thing we didn't want to do was have the events of the Mediterranean dictate a calendar for the rest of the world. So if we were to summarize some general processes within each Age:

Antiquity is characterized by competition between states and non-state regions around them – the “blank spaces” on the map. It is a time of city-building, of universalism and expansion, where states claim a mantle of absolute authority. This is the time when states claim to represent the heavens, and that their language is the one true one.

Exploration is a time of vernacularization – when these prior empires split into fragments of the former whole, and where local innovations alter what was there before. It is a time when universal religions rise to suture this gap, but where interconnections – especially global interconnections – come to define states.

Modernity is a retrenchment of empire. Here, modern and scientific thought, bureaucracy, has replaced or fused with notions of divine right, and empires are increasingly seeking to understand, catalog, control, and apportion their subjects.

In that way, Khmer was a better fit for Antiquity – early Khmer was continually expanding into non-state lands, the building and establishment of cities and the construction of a mandala state - a center-oriented city that sought to bring the cosmos into orbit around itself. In creating this gravitational/civilizational pull, Khmer cast itself as a universal center for civilization – something which resonates much more with Antiquity states elsewhere.

Importantly, there are also excellent descendants in the region that are doing very Exploration Age related things - so having Khmer in Antiquity allows us to create a more solid throughline for Southeast Asia.

Silla easily spans both antiquity and exploration, and I would argue Late/Unified Silla is where it truly shone. I'm not ruling it out until I see it.


Bulgaria fits better than Byzantium as a cultural intermediary between Greece and Russia. Rus took the Cyrillic alphabet (based on the Greek alphabet) and monks from the Bulgarians, not from the Greeks or Byzantium directly.

It really does. Byzantium would have been totally fine I think, but Bulgaria slots in much better for that particular path.
 
Something I just realized: After CotW and RtR, Civ7 will have more wonders than Civ6 in its entirety. That's insane—especially considering we're only at the beginning of Civ7's development cycle.
 
Also random question what do you think Silla’s icon will be
Civ7_icon_Silla.png

This is my design for the Civ idea thread, inspired from the golden crowns of Silla. I expect some sort of symbol like this will be the one for the official Silla Civ.
 
I wanted to see if there was something better but this will do for now, though I wonder what the devs will cook
The ones I guessed are
Britain: Crown (same as 6)
Carthage: Sign Tanit
Bulgaria: Pliska Rosette (not sure)
Nepal: idk but maybe those symbols from the flag
Assyria: Sun of Shamash
Dai Viet: Kim Quy (same as 6)
Qajars: Lion with a sword
 
Carthage: Sign Tanit
Sign of Tannit would be okay, but a stylized date palm is the symbol they used to represent themselves. (It's a bilingual pun since Greek phoinix means both Phoenician and date palm.)
 
I have always anticipated fewer antiquity civs proportionally since they seem to be serving as "wellfonts," for branching out of cultures, at least until the devs are able to add in more civs.

And as a matter of simply having a lot more options to choose from as compared to modern (which involved a lot of regional consolidation), I have also expected a slight bulge for exploration civs.

So this count seems fair to me.
But I can see they focusing on getting more even amounts for a while for the sake of getting enough civs for people to play three ages games without repeat civs in an age. While we don't have it yet, we should get larger maps in the future. So something like civ 6 where people can go up to 18 civs in a game, would make sense for them to at least get about 20 for each age before caring less about age number balance.
 
Something I just realized: After CotW and RtR, Civ7 will have more wonders than Civ6 in its entirety. That's insane—especially considering we're only at the beginning of Civ7's development cycle.

Can you build wonders from past eras? because, if not, then it might not be such a big issue. if you don't need a certain wonder and goes unbuilt, it might be just fine.
 
I wanted to see if there was something better but this will do for now, though I wonder what the devs will cook
The ones I guessed are
Britain: Crown (same as 6)
We should get a stylized clock tower to make up for the lack of Big Ben.
 
While strange for it not to be associated with GB, I think the chances of Big Ben being eventually added as a wonder are pretty high.
 
Can you build wonders from past eras? because, if not, then it might not be such a big issue. if you don't need a certain wonder and goes unbuilt, it might be just fine.
Almost certain you can't, there were no premodern Wonders seen as available (and if you do an advanced start... who gets the Wonders? or is there just a mad rush to build them all)
 
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