Crusader Kings 2

Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by SouthernKing, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Winner

    Winner Diverse in Unity

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    27,947
    Location:
    Brno -> Czech rep. >>European Union
    I don't play games much these days, no time for that. Paradox games especially are addictive when you start with them, which is the reason why until the game I posted screenshots from I hadn't played EU3 for... I don't know, a year?
     
  2. SouthernKing

    SouthernKing crickety cricket

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,914
    Location:
    Deva Loka
    Evenings, holidays, and weekends as well. Having a relatively fast comp, even if its 2 years old, does help by making games run smoother.
     
  3. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    I wasn't a fan of the original game on the grounds that it played extremely fast and loose with history; the sequel has been explicitly stated to be more of the same. Basically, the whole of Europe gets to operate on something approaching French-style feudalism, something which is barely excusable for, say, Sweden or the Rus' and absolutely disgraceful for the Greek East.
     
  4. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    3,351
    Yeah, CK is not really a historical game.
     
  5. B4tman

    B4tman Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    It's harder to represent history in CK because it's based on dinasties, than a game like EU
     
  6. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,944
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    Do people play Paradox games for the history? Really? Or for that matter, any game? The best place for a history lesson is a book.
     
  7. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    18,355
    Location:
    Get Back
    You play them to tinker with history.
     
  8. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    I'm obviously not going to play a Paradox game to learn history. But if they're going to make some sort of effort to ensure a historical setting and plausibility - something that they ostensibly have a commitment to doing - they could at least try and avoid some of the most blatant errors they've committed. Hell, they permit changes to archaic crap like succession laws - how hard could it have possibly been to ensure that not everything ended up a freaking appanage?

    What is perhaps most annoying about this is that this amounts to a claim that Christian Europe all had the exact same social and political system, and the Muslim world had a different (but still internally unified) one.
     
  9. west india man

    west india man Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    9,379
    Location:
    Brazil
    They probably oversimplified it so the game would run faster, and the developers wouldn't need to take the time to look up what individual political systems were like, and implement them into the game.
     
  10. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    Nope.
    Gold star. They did this because they couldn't be assed to do the research.
     
  11. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,944
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    To do a unique political system for every country would take a huge amount of effort; effort not really justified from the relatively small amounts of profit Paradox games make due to their small userbase.
     
  12. Luckymoose

    Luckymoose The World is Mine

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    18,355
    Location:
    Get Back
    They have been selling like hot cakes recently, this excuse is no longer based in fact.
     
  13. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    4,944
    Location:
    die Schweiz
    Really? Because not one of my friends owns a Paradox game (I have a lot of gamer friends) and as far as I know none of their friends own Paradox games either. Paradox themselves have said that in future they won't make games on discs, it's more sensical for them to stick to downloads because of how few people buy their games.
     
  14. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos The Eternal

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    62,521
    Location:
    Promenade
    Hm, didn't the EU3 games sell reasonably well?
     
  15. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Messages:
    9,020
    Location:
    Transtavia
    The game is most close to 14th century German "feudalism", and for a game stretching across Europe and starting 1066, that is not ideal.

    It is certainly a problem for CK. I guess all I would say is that it is a game that has to appeal to large market in order to be commercially viable. The 3-tiers French feudalism thing means that the game is simple enough to play for that market. The game may be full of historic nonsense, but few players will care.

    And incidetally, Paradox are leagues ahead of "fireaxis" or whoever at Take-Two does research for Civ. On a basis of comparison in a world where historical accuracy is held in contempt by providers of our entertainment, Paradox games are probably the most historically accurate games around.
     
  16. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    I'm not really sure that it is simpler, or rather, that Paradox did it that way to keep things simple for the player. And it's not as though it's an advertising point: Crusader Kings II: Play in Medieval Europe With Some Vague Stereotypical Feudal-Like Sociopolitical System hasn't exactly been emblazoned across the packaging.

    But thanks for actually acknowledging that this is a legitimate complaint. :)
    Yeah, sure. And I play some Paradox games, like Darkest Hour. But I'd rather play something that doesn't care about being accurate than something that's some arbitrary mishmash of half-history half-fantasy.
     
  17. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Messages:
    9,020
    Location:
    Transtavia
    Well, from the point of view of the average gamer, the rules have to be transparent. If you know the history, then that's fine. But most players won't, and will be alienated from the game if the rules are too complex or change too much from polity to polity.

    This is not the whole story, as you say. Researching, coding and testing the level of detail to satisfy guys like yourself is probably not regarded as priority #1 either. These games appeal to a market that's enthusiastic about history, respecting surface adherence to historical fact, but ignorant enough to not care about the issues raised here (the universal HRE social structure, the lobsided map, inaccurate details, etc).
     
  18. Hammurabi II

    Hammurabi II Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Ohio
    Like most other Paradox games, I'm sure CK2 will be great.....after a year of patches and maybe an expansion or 2. :yup: Sadly, I've learned my lesson with EUIII, HoI3, VictoriaII, etc. :deadhorse:

    fake edit - why is that guy hitting the horse there? :cringe:
     
  19. NBAfan

    NBAfan boss

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    3,351
    CKII will be in very good shape on release. It's in release state already, but won't come out until Jan.
     
  20. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    15,602
    Paradox said that Victoria II was in good release shape early, and I remember seeing beta testers post about how polished it was leading up to the release.

    I'll wait and see.
     

Share This Page