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Crush the enemy or leave survivors?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Toshiro126, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Boston
    At the moment I am on a fairly big continent, playing as Rome on Noble, with my only continental neighbors being the French and Incas. Well, once I got my iron resource hooked up, the ol' French took quite a beating from my Praetorians. :spank:

    Even though my army was more advanced then theirs, it took quite a while for me to make my way to Paris, which I now own. Now the French have two cities left. So, my fellow Civ generals, here are two questions which popped up during this game:

    1) are there any benefits to leaving the French alive with two cities? Would that help me later on in the game? or should I just push them into the ocean? :mischief:

    2) is it bad for your society too be at war for TOO long? What I worry about is while I'm building all these soilders and cats, the other AIs are building city improvements that will advance their soceity way beyond mine. Is it better to just have a series of quick, small wars with breaks in between? :confused:

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  2. Proteus

    Proteus King

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    1) Sometimes it might be beneficial to leave survivors.
    In my current game I conquered the indians, but only invaded them until they had 2 cities remaining before I declared peace.
    Why? On the other side of the 2 remaining indian cities there was a city of Saladin (which was a close ally). Conquering the last remaining indian cities would have meant that I would have gotten either negative points in diplomacy for "close borders" to saladin, or (if I had razed those cities) would have meant that another civ would have gotten the chance to settle the spots, maybe one of the civs I wouldn´t have liked to get a foothold onto my continent.
    The english however were wiped from the face of the planet byn my forces as there was no reason to let them survive.

    2) Of course, the negative effect is named war weariness and leads to more and more unhappy (and therefore unproductive) citizen s the longer your wars last.
     
  3. BlackMage

    BlackMage Warlord

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    Benefits to leaving the French alive? If you kiss and make up, maybe, but with only two cities, you may be better off crushing them.

    Being at war for too long creates war weariness which makes your citizens mad. This goes away over time when you are at peace. Also, you have to pay maintenance for each military unit in enemy territory.
     
  4. Artanis

    Artanis King

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    1) Not really, no. They'll just culture-choke your new "acquisitions" and not be able to afford giving you any tribute in return for their continued existance. If you can sustain the costs of continuing the war and (possibly) maintaining a couple more cities, just wipe 'em out.


    2) Yes. Military units cost money, military units outside your lands cost more money, and military units in enemy lands cost even more than that. This hurts your finances, possibly forcing you to lower your science rate. Gobbling up cities also increases your maintainance costs, which will also cost money and thus science rate. On top of that, War Weariness will eventually overwhelm your luxury resources, forcing you to up your Culture rate and decreasing productivity...again, reducing your ability to afford a high science rate. Finally, running Theocracy, Vassalage, and Police State will help you fight, but are expensive as hell and will keep you from reaping the benefits of the other, more "peaceful" civics.

    IF you can sustain the costs without crippling yourself, then more you can conquer, the better. However, a gigantic empire will do no good if you are losing money at 0% science ;)
     
  5. Oggums

    Oggums King

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    Here are a few general rules I usually follow:

    If they have techs they will give up for peace, make peace. Then crush them in 10 turns when the treaty ends.

    If you have War Weariness, make peace. Then crush them in 10 turns when the treaty ends.

    If you've already been at war for some time, and the cities they have left have a high cultural defense (usually the capital, which you've already taken), make peace. Then crush them after you research catapults.

    One advantage of leaving them around is to have a tech trading partner that will always be behind and may have something to exchange with. But usually after the war, they wont ever warm up to you enough to trade. Most of the time you'd be better off just using that land for yourself.

    Sometimes you already have too much land that you can't afford, so you might want to leave them there to improve it for you. You can take it later after they build forges and other nice things.
     
  6. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    I guess what I wondering if by leaving some other weak civs lying around, if any other of the AIs wanted to beat on somebody, they would pick one of the weak ones and stay out of my way. :cool:
     
  7. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    I would leave them around, for the following reasons

    1) They act as a buffer zone between you and other civs. Thus, in order to get through, a civ must have open borders with them. Not all civs will have this. Also, it will help relations with your neighbor.

    2) You can go ahead with your research branch and use them to get backward techs you missed as you beelined for whatever.

    3) You don't have to bother developing their cities and paying their maintenance fees.
     
  8. kb2tvl

    kb2tvl King

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    I would keep taking cities until you have to take actions that are different than those you are taking now. If you have to build a navy or travel accross a neighboring civ then I would make peace.

    I do not see any benefit in keeping a civ alive. An alive civ is more trouble than anything else. That civ will be upset with you till the end of the game and will not vote for you in a diplomatic victory.

    If you are at war for a long time, you can rotate cities building needed structures. This is not optimal but you do what you have to do. Also, this prevents slowing down research.
     
  9. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

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    I usually destroy enemy civs if they are sharing the same land as me. Why should I leave them alive if I can absorb them into my empire?

    I usually don't bother hunting down AI civs who have been reduced to island dwellers; naval combat is not my forte, especially with destructable naval improvements in Civ IV. However, one of the other AIs usually finishes off the island dwellers.

    If the civ in question has a lot of friends, by all means destroy them. When they are gone, their friends will only be mad at you for declaring war (nothing else). But if you leave them alive, they may organize a colalition against you.
     
  10. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Hmmm...didn't think about that about the political end of things. I'm tempted to leave them alive for a while and see how they react to their new "mini-kingdom". Sort of like a lab experiment!
     
  11. Napo981

    Napo981 ***ernEmperor

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    To continue war is a cost-benefice decision.

    On the positive side, you got...
    - more land, look if those cities are somehow valuable (cottaged green grass, ressources) or just trash cities
    - avoid the enemy of sharing high-end tech, if any

    On the negative side...
    - sustain war weariness longer
    - cost of army in enemy land
    - production oriented toward war units
    - take time, mobilization of war units
     
  12. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    if i start a war i generally like to finish it, mainly out of fear of the cities switching back to their previous owners.
     
  13. S.ilver

    S.ilver Emperor

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    That's another good point. If you don't destroy the civ completely you'll have to deal with both cultural borders (unless you manage to isolate them on tiny islands) and the foriegn nationals, who will endlessly complain that they'd "yearn to return to [their] motherland!" It's also a pain drafting wise, as you can't draft from a city that is less than 10% your citizens (only really affects you if you're a ruthless warmonger that will draft the hell out of a city to keep your army moving :crazyeye: ).
     
  14. BlackMage

    BlackMage Warlord

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    Cities will not culture flip to the civilization from which they were militarily conquered unless specifically set in the Custom Game options.
     
  15. automator

    automator King

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    Unless it provides me with a buffer or a few good techs, I'll never peace out with a civ when I can wipe 'em out. I learned early on that a civ, once pissed off in the ancient age, will remain pissed off until the late industrial age at the earliest. They'll continually war with you. Even if you can crush them or prevent them from doing any damage, they'll still be a pain in the ass.
     

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