Cs Allies and Strategic Resources

[docbud]

ToCan anyone tell me whether one is better off to be allies with a city state or just invade them and take the strategic resources?

I'm playing Hiawatha (Prince level), and decided to go with diplomacy (I had a lousy start at beginning of game and was dog-piled on). I since took over most of my continent and am making a ton of cash (280+ a turn. I'm playing epic speed, and it's around 1980 or so.

Several of my allied city states have a ton of oil and aluminum but they are NOT drilling nor mining for it. And it's been that way for over a few hundred years. And to make it worse, I have the patronage tree completely filled out, so I should be getting double the resources.

I'm tempted to just invade them and take it myself, and to hell with the double amount.

But I figure I can get a diplomatic/UN win so I don't want to do that.

But--in general--would I have been better off invading and taking the resources and concentrate on autocracy (which when filled out gives me double the resources I own)?

EDIT: I can't lose either way as I am way ahead tech-wise and military wise. I've got bombers and tanks and nukes, while the other civs are only at pikemen and Washington just got to minutemen.

It's just frustrating spending all this cash on city states and not getting those double resources.

 

[Halcyan2]

Several of my allied city states have a ton of oil and aluminum but they are NOT drilling nor mining for it. And it's been that way for over a few hundred years. And to make it worse, I have the patronage tree completely filled out, so I should be getting double the resources.

It's just frustrating spending all this cash on city states and not getting those double resources.

FYI, the City States (and Barbarians) follow some sort of technological development path that is related to (but not exactly the same) how the other players are doing. City States need to reach that level of technology before they can grant that resource (even if they have a mine on the coal/uranium! Apparently they can't see it yet!).

At Prince level, you are likely far ahead of the other players in terms of tech. So it may take some time for the City States to be able to reach the necessary tech level, see the resource, build the improvement, and give it to you.

In contrast, at Deity level, CS' may be far ahead of you (which is obvious when their units can crush yours). I have had occasions when allied city states grant me a resource that I haven't even "discovered" yet (this also happens occasionally if I delay Animal Husbandry or Iron Working to take the upper tech path - CS' get those resources before they even show up at the top of my screen).

 

[DaveMcW]

City states and barbarians get any tech that TWO players have researched.

So you probably are safe without the resource, but if you really need it you'll have to invade.

 

[docbud]

Thanks for the explanation, gang.

I am definitely way ahead of things tech-wise, and I figured that might be the reason. But it's costing me so much gold/cash that it's getting ridiculous to keep them as allies.

I've got enough of oil and aluminum on my own, so it's not a major crisis, but the extra from them would come in handy.

I'm about to wipe out Liz, and have allied myself with Monty against Denmark. I pretty much have the game won.

 

[joshua43214]

Thanks for the explanation, gang.

I am definitely way ahead of things tech-wise, and I figured that might be the reason. But it's costing me so much gold/cash that it's getting ridiculous to keep them as allies.

I've got enough of oil and aluminum on my own, so it's not a major crisis, but the extra from them would come in handy.

I'm about to wipe out Liz, and have allied myself with Monty against Denmark. I pretty much have the game won.

lol at 280gpt it should be painless to keep them all allied, especially since you have all of patronage.

I suggest you move up a diffculty level, this level is too easy for you. If you can do the same thing on King, then welcome to the Immortal club

 

[Greasy Dave]

A related question. How many units do CS's tend to produce to defend themselves? I've played many games at immortal and never seen more than 3 or 4 per city.

I'm trying deity right now. In a past attempt I got my backside kicked by Cathy who allied with a CS neighbour of mine and when she declared war the CS produced 8 riflemen from nowhere right on my border- I figure that CAthy gifted them to the CS? But if she gifted them, then they teleported over there because I definitely didn't see a line of 8 riflemen picking there way along my border. Right? Or was there something else at play here?

I'm kind of anxious to know the mechanics going on here because in my current game I've got quite a strong defensive position but I'm warring with LIz and she's allied to 3 CS's all on my border. So far the units from the CS's have been single units and nothing overwhelming. And I'm wondering if I can launch my army at Liz, or if I should be more concerned with the CS's who are right on my doorstep? Is what I experienced with Cathy an anomaly? Or is it normal at this difficulty level?

 

[smallfish]

Enough to take out a city or three.

Spoiler :

But it takes time, especially on the lower levels.

 

[Greasy Dave]

hmmm. ouch, that reminds me of what I had to deal with against Cathy. At deity, in the late rennaissance, can I expect to see that many units?

 

[joshua43214]

A related question. How many units do CS's tend to produce to defend themselves? I've played many games at immortal and never seen more than 3 or 4 per city.

For some reason I never understood, it seems that the cultural CS's crank out tons of units, but the militaristic ones do not. I also am pretty sure that the cultural ones do not build barracks. It always seem that the units from cultural (and maritime) CS's are alot easier to kill than the ones from militaristic CS's. The cultural ones also never seem to give up, and will always send a trickle of units against whatever of my cities is nearby. I suppose this is because they don't gift units like the militaristics ones do.

I once allied a culteral right before I DoW's and laughed my head off when I saw they had so many units they would not all fit inside their borders.

 

[Silverfuturist]

City states and barbarians get any tech that TWO players have researched.

So you probably are safe without the resource, but if you really need it you'll have to invade.

Thanks, I wasn't sure how that worked in singleplayer. In multiplayer, it is any tech that any one player gets. Yesterday there were 2 of us left in an FFA, and I saw a city state get infantry, so I knew where my opponent was at. I rushed stealth to win, and fortunately city states don't build aircaft... that would suck if an enemy CS stealthbombed your cities to nothing...