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CS Quests

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    The CS quest system is one of my favorite parts of VP. There is something about nabbing 2 quests at the same time, or getting a quest that makes you the ally of a CS...which in turn lets you accomplish a different quest....that is just so dag gun fun!

    I think most of the quests are in a pretty good place right now. But I do have a few recommendations for adjustment.

    1) Magnifying Glass (Advanced Action) - We've talked about this before. This one is simply too random to be a good quest. There is little rhyme or reason to when it triggers, and I think its the one quest that should just be removed entirely.

    I would be open to alternatives like: "Election Rigging benefits are doubled" or "gain influence in a CS for every turn a spy (or maybe diplomat) is left in Civ X". Or maybe if it was any spy action on any civ period it might be more palatable.

    2) Trade Route Quest early game: I think the TR quest in general is fine...except in the early game. TRs are very very precious at this point, and the CS TR benefits are also very low at this point. Giving up my TR for 30 turns is a big opportunity cost, and I don't think the quest strength is worth it at this point. My main beef is I don't even get enough influence to make a CS friend for any length of time. So it comes down to the food, and I can get a lot more food overall with a food ITR.

    Now once medieval scaling hits I think the quest is fine. I get some solid influence, and a nice pile of food for the use of my TR. Its a reasonable cost.

    3) Pledge of Protection: I can honestly say the last game was the first time I have ever seen this quest. I didn't even know it existed until literally 3 days ago! So I have no issues with the balance, but how do we make this quest appear a bit more often?

    4) Unit Gifting: This could just be a bias on my part....but do people find unit gifting that useful? It seems like a pathetic amount of influence. I don't feel that the unit gifting quest really upgrades this to a good level, and its one I never use.
     
  2. Coffee Monopoly

    Coffee Monopoly Warlord

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    1) Agreed, that quest is garbage. I've never even attempted it.

    2) I often do these early trade route quests if they give enough influence to secure a CS for a while. Then again I'm not used to exploiting ITR and usually just skip trade in the early game. I think you have a point. Maybe the yields from this quest could be a improved, the food yields are never a reason for me to do it.

    3) Never seen that. You sure you weren't hallucinating? :smoke:

    4) I usually only gift units if I need a very small number of influence to pass their current ally. The amount of influence really is small. Maybe it should scale with the stats of the unit? The related quest also sometimes coincides with the CS actually being at threat of being conquered, in which case gifting them units to prevent that serves a double purpose. The influence gain in that case is usually less important than keeping the CS alive.
     
  3. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    Agree with you on the first three. For #4, I never really gift units unless I want to protect a City-State ally from getting conquered.
     
  4. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    #2- Sometimes you can time it with another quest or your free emissary to get a decent relationship going. I think its fine

    #3- I forget if human vs AI military scores ever got normalized. I just constantly clearly have a powerful military but lose my pledge of protections anyways.

    #4- I do use it occasionally. Its more about just having an unwanted unit, and the tiny influence being worth more than the gold for deleting.
     
    Kim Dong Un likes this.
  5. azum4roll

    azum4roll King

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    Can we have a list of all possible quests and their triggers? Preferably include whether they will be revoked after X turns pass or when you demand tribute from the CS.
     
  6. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    One quest I rarely get is the "kill the other or ally both type quests". The timer on those is very tight, I think its tighter than any other quest. So even when I go for it, sometimes I just don't have enough time.
     
    crdvis16 likes this.
  7. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    1) Advanced Action - Yeah it's a meh for me too.

    2) My question for this one is - if you start a TR with a CS that is not your Ally, and because of completing the TR Quest it now becomes your Ally, do you then get the TR bonuses from that CS as if it was your Ally, or are you stuck with the TR bonus you first saw? The answer to this question certainly determines what I would do.

    3) I have to be honest and say that I don't like this quest because it is too easy. Quests should require some kind of real effort or sacrifice.

    4) Personally I think unit gifting was nerfed too hard and it should be backed up...a lot. The numbers should not drop down from 15 influence until that CS has at least 6 units imo.
     
  8. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    Since you mention this one, I should add that I never even attempt to do the conquest variant of it because I don't find the rewards very good. For defeating an enemy CS, you should become Allies with the other CS for like forever, and get a crapton of gold and science and unit XP. Not unusually, it's actually a big commitment, a small timer, you lose a potential Ally, and other civs hate you. This quest is weak.
     
  9. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Does it activate from Venice's purchase mechanic?

    I'm usually willing to conquer a CS in my warmonger games. I'm often tributing so it's not like I'm looking to ally CSs anyway and I'd rather not have some nearby CS annoying me when I DoW its ally.
     
  10. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    The "Build X Building" quest I generally like a lot, as it sometimes shakes up my build order. There are however, 2 exceptions.

    1) Constabularies
    2) Hotels

    These are very niche buildings, and I'm not going to build that many of them, even with a quest incentive. Ok...maaaaaaybe the constabulary in conjunction with policy benefits, maaaaybe….but never the hotel.
     
    Heinz_Guderian likes this.
  11. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    If you're Polynesia, Morocco, France or other civs with a UI that gives culture and you're going for a tourism win you probably will. Though that is admittedly pretty niche.
     
  12. Drakle

    Drakle Warlord

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    As a suggestion for City state quests, instead of removing a city-state by conquering, how about a 'Ravage 'City State' Quest'.

    The two city-states at war both ask you to declare war on the other and then you complete the quest by pillaging a certain number of tiles and/or kill units of the city-state. Give a use for the army if not in a war to gain favour, by falling upon a minor power and giving them a thrashing.
     
    SwirlSlayer and vyyt like this.

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