CTIV-5: Peacenik Re-education Camp

[ChrTh]

Not necessarily. Once we have chopped the riverside trees (which we will want to do anyway to unlock the commerce from those tiles) we can farm the grassland/plains tiles, which should provide more than enough excess for decent growth when coupled with cottaged FPs.

I was working under the idea that chopping is a bad thing with all the flood plains there (even with the expansion bonus).

 

[ChrTh]

Lurker's comment: In Civ4, you get war weariness no matter what civic you are using. So if you are always at war, won't you get so much war weariness that all your citizen will refuse to work at some point? Shouldn't you add a rule to give yourself some chance against it, like one turn between the end of a war and the beginning of another?

BTW, I consider myself a warmonger and the most war weariness I experienced so far war was around 75% of the population. If it tops at 100% of the population, I guess you will need 2 happiness per population point to keep them working.

While there is a lot of AW SG in civ3, I think this is the first one I see in civ 4, so that is why I am just curious on how you intend to counter that.

I'm not 100% sure of the rules on War Weariness in Civ 4. There are other games going the AW route, and I haven't seen anything that indicates they're overburdened yet; I think WW may only be opponent-specific, but I guess we'll find out.

There's always conquering as many resources as possible.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

I think we could wait to chop them - there are 4 FPs that don't need any chopping, and I would assume we would cottage those before we would need the grasslands. 4 FPs + 4 Hills (forget exact number) = 8 tiles before I would personally start chopping. Don't forget we have cows too, thats 3 or 4 food...

 

[Scowler]

I was working under the idea that chopping is a bad thing with all the flood plains there (even with the expansion bonus).

Should be okay, I think?
+1.5(?) from trees we keep
+2 from river
+1 from granary
+1 from cows

Feel free to correct - I could be completely out!

 

[Scowler]

I think we could wait to chop them - there are 4 FPs that don't need any chopping, and I would assume we would cottage those before we would need the grasslands. 4 FPs + 4 Hills (forget exact number) = 8 tiles before I would personally start chopping. Don't forget we have cows too, thats 3 or 4 food...

Good point, and we can't chop 'til BW anyway.

EDIT: the cows also give +2 production with pasture, which is nice

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, I'm lost: move or no?

 

[Scowler]

Hehe, I'm happy to go with whatever the SG decides (I can't believe we're on page 4 and still haven't decided where to put our FIRST city )

 

[oldbustedjorn]

My vote is move SE, but of course if we do that we'll miss out on resources I'm sure (a murphy's law kind of thing), so I don't want to be the only one to blame...

 

[ruff_hi]

My vote is to settle somewhere - don't care where - can see benefits either way.

 

[ChrTh]

My vote is to settle somewhere - don't care where - can see benefits either way.

Well there goes my plan to disband the settler

 

[Scowler]

Well there goes my plan to disband the settler

There is another option, of course: to regenerate the map in the hope of getting something more conclusive. If you don't want to do that I'll cast my vote in favour of moving SE. If it turns out to be a mistake then so be it. The whole purpose of the SG is to give ourselves a challenge and to leap whatever hurdles are thrown in our path.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

Well there goes my plan to disband the settler

Fine. Lets do all the things that YOU want to do.

 

[ChrTh]

I think in the final analysis I would prefer our capital to be a commerce/GPP site ... and I'll probably settle where I'm at. The AI likes it, anyway.

 

[oldbustedjorn]

The AI likes it, anyway.

Yea, the same AI that puts archer/settler pairs on one-tile islands for a 1000-yr vacation...

Commerce/GPP is fine with me - there is no right answer (or spoon). Besides, I'm the student here

 

[The Duff Man]

Just do it. There are going to be tough calls along the way, and whoever is up will make the final decision. If we are going to go completely democratic for everything this could take a while. If we are voting though I vote to move SE.

 

[ChrTh]

Yea, the same AI that puts archer/settler pairs on one-tile islands for a 1000-yr vacation...

Commerce/GPP is fine with me - there is no right answer (or spoon). Besides, I'm the student here

We're all students here ... it's the variant rules that are the teacher!

@Duff Man: Nah, we won't be turning this into a democracy game. I figured since I wasn't going to play the turns immediately that it was worth discussing. I do see more of desire to go SE than staying put, so now I'm heading for that. (Hrm, maybe the next SG should be a Decisive one)

 

[oldbustedjorn]

(Hrm, maybe the next SG should be a Decisive one)

Oh please no - I'd suck at that...

...and of course... I'd be the first one in line

 

[ChrTh]

Turn 0 -- 4000 BC

I move SE and settle. Karakorum is built. Start Warrior, and Archery.

Turn 1 -- 3960 BC

Sheep to the NE.

Turn 3 -- 3880 BC

Villagers give us 54 gold.

TUrn 4 -- 3840 BC

I find a coast to the NW.

Turn 5 -- 3800 BC

Looks like a good citysite to the W (a couple fishes and cows)

Turn 6 -- 3760 BC

Villagers give us 42 gold.

Turn 7 -- 3720 BC

Archery comes in, starts Animal Husbandry (since Horses our necessary for our UU)

Turn 8 -- 3680 BC

Warrior > Barracks.

Turn 10 -- 3600 BC

Hrm, we haven't encountered any other Civs yet (although granted we've been hanging out by our city with the scout).

Turn 11 -- 3560 BC

Villagers give us Fishing! (although Mining would be better)

Turn 12 -- 3520 BC

There's marble up river from us.

Turn 13 -- 3480 BC

Gems as well.

Turn 15 -- 3400 BC

Buddhism FIADL

Villagers give us 84 gold.

Turn 16 -- 3360 BC

Scout kills a lion.

I find what looks like the east coast.

Turn 17 -- 3320 BC

Hinduism FIADL. Scout is fortified until healed.

Turn 18 -- 3280 BC

Animal Husbandry comes in, start Mining.

No horses in the explored land so far

Turn 20 -- 3200 BC


Still no contact. $5 says we're on an island again

Here's what I've found so far:


Here's the save:
View attachment 114595

Duff Man, you can take 15, but I suspect I'm going to have to reroll the start .. AGAIN.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, I went into worldbuilder to verify: we're on an island

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to reload the 4000BC save, and then I'm going to regenerate the start. I'll then go into worldbuilder to make sure we're not on an island again, and The Duff Man will start the game and I'll go to the end of the line.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, I actually had to do it twice, but I've confirmed the start that we're not alone on the continent [in case anyone is wondering how I did it while minimizing the amount of info I got, I zoomed all the way out, selected soldiers (so I would see settlers) and then entered worldbuilder. That only gave me a view of other settlers and I didn't see any resources, etc. I have a vague idea about the size/shape of the continent, but it's vague and will be forgotten long before I get to play.]

Starting position:


Save:
View attachment 114601

Roster
------
The Duff Man -- UP (20 turns to start)
pling -- On deck (15 turns)
ruff_hi
Scowler
oldbustedjorn
ChrTh