CTIV-7: King George the First

unfortunately I popped the wrong key and deleted my carefully crafted turn log.


In summary captured Seville and started to move south to both Madrid and Salamanca. Unfortunately it looks like the Khan will beat us to Madrid.

Traded Chemistry to Cyrus for Music and Philosophy and a map and some chump change, got a relations boost with him, and a leg towards Nationalism and the Constitution, Cyrus is now the undisputed tech king of the continent as he is well along the upper branch and has already taken Representation as his government civic. After banking came in started on Replaceable Parts but didn't make much progress as the war weariness thing kept me moving the budget back.

THe Great Merchant from Chicago is on his way to Persepolis and about halfway now (BTW GM's can move through closed borders as he is almost all the way across Monte's land).

Built the monasteries for our religions as we have more than enough troops on hand to finish the war with Isabella.


Worker actions focused on population building improvements (farms and chops for grocers and the like).

Our southern expansion and the military build up has pushed us well ahead of Mansa in score. All looks good for getting to our objective, and the Great Merchant Trade Mission should net us some serious gelt for learning stuff. And the impending end of the war with Issy will help as well.

We should probably end is when Salamanca and Madrid fall where they may, either to us or the Khan.

The same keystroke that wasted the log caused one more turn but the movement points are still there.


The progress of the war in pictures

The jackal corps move in behind Khan's forces on the gems hill
1520.jpg


Issy sends out a raider
1530.jpg

He dies on a pike.

Piling on at Seville
1535.jpg


Issy's defenses at Seville
1535_02.jpg


The defenses at Madrid against the advancing Khan
1550.jpg


The advancing Americans at Salamanca
1550_01.jpg


We also have a force coming down the forested hills towards Madrid, but they may not make it before Khan takes the town
 
Bede said:
(BTW GM's can move through closed borders as he is almost all the way across Monte's land).
I did not know that! Thanks for posting that tidbit, Bede! It looks like my ignorance of Great Merchants probably cost us a chunk of change on my last turnset. :sad: Sorry about that folks!

[pre][/pre]

Roster Check:
ChrTh
Bede > Just Played
Methos > Requested a Skip
Scowler > UP
Maquis > On Deck
Conroe
 
The earliest I could get to it would be late tonight, but not sure that I can. I'm pu in both of my other SG's also. I'll update if I can take it tonight.
 
Don't worry, Maquis. I have it now.
 
Turns played; I won't have time to write up the report until later today.
 
Turn 0 (1555 AD)
Boston begins: Bank
Murcia begins: Courthouse

IBT:
Atlanta's borders expand
Scythian grows: 5
Santiago's borders expand

Turn 1 (1560 AD)
Khan has kindly been throwing his troops against the city defenses so we have but a single axeman to deal with...

Battle of Salamanca
While attacking, Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Axeman

civilization420060410112602208.jpg


Captured Salamanca (Isabella)

IBT:
Washington finishes: Grocer
Boston grows: 13
Los Angeles grows: 8
Scythian's borders expand
Santiago finishes: Work Boat
Confucianism has spread: Gepid
Izzy adopts Bureaucracy
Montezuma adopts Mercantilism

Turn 2 (1565 AD)
Khan has indeed beaten us to Madrid (Hindu holy city) :mad: Bede suggested that we seek peace with Izzy once Madrid and Salamanca had fallen, but I'm inclined to keep up the pressure a little longer. Having missed out on Madrid, I'm pretty sure I can snatch Barcelona (the Jewish holy city) from under Khan's nose. Judaism has a higher market penetration than Hinduism so could be more profitable; more importantly, since we are seeking a diplomatic victory it is in our interest to build up our population as much as possible. I also don't like the idea of Khan grabbing so much territory. His latest acquisition has bumped him up to third place in score, behind us and Mansa. It's a bit of a gamble, since our techological growth is being stunted while we have the culture slider up to counter war-weariness, but I think it will work to our benefit in the end.
Washington begins: Bank
Santiago begins: Courthouse

IBT:
New York finishes: Knight
Confucianism has spread: Philadelphia

Turn 3 (1570 AD)
Great Merchant arrives in Persepolis and conducts a trade mission for 1700 smackeroonies. A quick peak inside the city:

civilization420060410115044067.jpg


New York begins: Bank

IBT:
Tech learned: Replaceable Parts
Seattle's borders expand
Murcia grows: 6

Turn 4 (1575 AD)
Research begun: Liberalism
Seville begins: Theatre

IBT:
Boston finishes: Bank
Atlanta finishes: Grocer
Chicago's borders expand
Los Angeles finishes: Courthouse
Seville's borders expand

Turn 5 (1580 AD)
Boston begins: University
Los Angeles begins: Harbor

IBT:
Atlanta grows: 13
San Francisco finishes: Forge
Murcia's borders expand

Turn 6 (1585 AD)
San Francisco begins: Harbor

IBT:
Washington finishes: Bank
Salamanca's borders expand
Mao goes Free Market

Turn 7 (1590 AD)
Mansa asks for OB, but he is too unpopular to be worth the risk.
Washington begins: University
Salamanca begins: Theatre
While we have been moving our troops up into position Khan has been pounding the defenses in Barcelona. Unfortunately for him, he has now left himself without enough units to take the city; we, on the other hand, have no such problem...

Battle of Barcelona
Suicide cat causes collateral damage to 5 units and withdraws to safety
While attacking, Maceman defeats (6.48/8): Spanish Longbowman
While attacking, Maceman defeats (6.32/8): Spanish Longbowman
While attacking, Knight defeats (10.00/10): Spanish Spearman
While attacking, Knight defeats (8.60/10): Spanish Horse Archer
While attacking, Maceman defeats (8.00/8): Spanish Catapult
While attacking, Swordsman defeats (6.00/6): Spanish Chariot

civilization420060410125343571.jpg


We also get 3 free workers to improve the surrounding area once borders expand - useful, considering there isn't much food available in the vicinity.

Izzy is now down to her last two cities: a pitiful size 2 collection of tents west of Barca, and Cordoba, a size 11 metropolis near Salamanca. It's not worth bothering with the size 2, but I'm pretty certain we can get Cordoba if we are cunning and let Khan do most of the work yet again. Fortunately, I left a couple of grens and a cat behind to get in place, and the knights should be able to ride back in time to help out. Khan also sent most of his forces towards Barcelona so there shouldn't be any danger of him taking Cordoba just yet.

IBT:
New York grows: 11
New York finishes: Bank
Seattle finishes: Harbor
Gepid finishes: Forge
Confucianism has spread: Los Angeles
Khan adopts Free Market

Turn 8 (1595 AD)
New York begins: University
Seattle begins: Aqueduct
Gepid begins: Harbor

IBT:
San Francisco grows: 7
Murcia finishes: Courthouse
Seville finishes: Theatre

Turn 9 (1600 AD)
Murcia begins: Lighthouse
Seville begins: Library

IBT:
Philadelphia grows: 14
Philadelphia finishes: Market
Atlanta finishes: Hindu Monastery
Chicago finishes: Grocer
Confucianism has spread: Washington

Turn 10 (1605 AD)
Philadelphia begins: Bank
Atlanta begins: Bank

Troops are now in place around Cordoba. As you can see, the defenses shouldn't present overwhelming difficulties (though beware: the city is on a hill):

civilization420060410135452434.jpg


It's all a matter of timing. Khan doesn't yet have enough units to take the city in a single assault so if you wait a bit for him to knock out another defender or two you should be able to use the cat for collateral (or crack the defenses if they have been rebuilt) and then take the city with the knights and gren. I've just bombarded the city defenses to 0% in order to tempt Khan to attack. Don't wait too long, though, as he has plenty of riflemen on the way.
Once we have taken Cordoba make peace with Izzy and take whatever you can get from her (she'll probably be wiped out in a couple of turns). Then you can turn down culture and turn up science; infrastructure has been beefed up as well this round so we should be in reasonable shape, even once our new acquisitions come online.

You may have noticed that Mao has been spamming our cities with Confused missionaries. Presumably he is intending to ask us to convert, but with Liberalism due next turn we will be able to switch to Free Religion (and Free Speech) and all his missionary work will actually help us ;)

Unfortunately, there were no opportunities for trading this round.

civilization420060410135904794.jpg


civilization420060410135915903.jpg


civilization420060410140008563.jpg


The save
 
First off, I can't seem to upload anything to imageshack, so sorry that there are no screenies! I can post them later if needed (and I can UL to imageshack)


As we say farewell to Izzy... I for one shed not a tear.

As I am looking at Cordoba, I do not see much in the way, I think we should be able to take it on my second turn, once a couple more troops are in place. I think we should keep the city, as it is in a decent spot, and we can get Whales from it.

Indeed, it falls on my second turn. Izzy is down to one craptacular city. Not sure if Khan will take it, he has a few units close by, but he seems to be more concerned with pillaging.

I decide to send part of our garrison in Barcelona to investigate Izzy's remaining defense.

Upon arriving at Toledo, I find one Longbow and one Spear. I think our mini-stack of a Mace, Sword, and Pike can take it.

Two attacks, no losses. Toledo is razed.

Oh, remind me someday to thank Khan for bombarding the defenses down...

And Izzy won't be voting for us, nor anyone else for that matter.

On the research side of things, after Liberalism came in, I set research to Astronomy. Looks like no one has it, and it's (eventually) on the path to the UN. Last turn, Astronomy came in, and I chose Steel next. Conroe, feel free to veto!

I made a couple trades, got Economics from Khan for Liberalism, and traded with Mao Liberalism + gold for Nationalism late in my turnset.


Spoiler :

Turn 231 (1605 AD)
Tech learned: Liberalism
Seattle grows: 15
Los Angeles grows: 9
Scythian grows: 6
Santiago finishes: Courthouse

Turn 232 (1610 AD)
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Longbowman
Knight loses to: Spanish Spearman (1.48/4)
Knight defeats (6.90/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Knight defeats (7.00/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Knight defeats (8.40/10): Spanish Horse Archer
Grenadier defeats (12.00/12): Spanish Spearman
Judaism has spread: Cordoba (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Cordoba
Captured Cordoba (Isabella)
Research begun: Astronomy
Santiago begins: Granary

Turn 233 (1615 AD)
Tech learned: Economics
Los Angeles finishes: Harbor
Murcia finishes: Lighthouse
Seville's borders expand

Turn 234 (1620 AD)
Los Angeles begins: Bank
Murcia begins: Granary
Boston grows: 14
Boston finishes: University
Atlanta grows: 14

Turn 235 (1625 AD)
Swordsman defeats (0.48/6): Spanish Longbowman
Maceman defeats (3.84/8): Spanish Spearman
Judaism has spread: Toledo (Spanish Empire)
Judaism has spread: Toledo
Buddhism has spread: Toledo
Captured Toledo (Isabella)
Razed Toledo
Judaism has spread: Toledo
Buddhism has spread: Toledo
Toledo lost
Boston begins: Theatre
Washington finishes: University

Turn 236 (1630 AD)
Washington begins: Confucian Monastery
Barcelona begins: Theatre
Boston finishes: Theatre
Chicago finishes: Islamic Monastery
Barcelona's borders expand

Turn 237 (1635 AD)
Chicago begins: University
Boston begins: Heroic Epic
Washington finishes: Confucian Monastery
Seattle grows: 16
Gepid finishes: Harbor
Scythian grows: 7

Turn 238 (1640 AD)
Washington begins: Theatre
Gepid begins: Courthouse
Scythian finishes: Theatre
Santiago finishes: Granary
Seville finishes: Library

Turn 239 (1645 AD)
Scythian begins: Granary
Santiago begins: Library
Seville begins: Bank
Tech learned: Astronomy
Washington finishes: Theatre
New York finishes: University
Gepid grows: 13
Salamanca finishes: Theatre
Cordoba's borders expand

Turn 240 (1650 AD)
Tech learned: Nationalism
Research begun: Steel
Washington begins: Observatory
New York begins: Observatory
Cordoba begins: Granary
Salamanca begins: Courthouse
Seville begins: Forbidden Palace




As you can see, I started the Forbidden Palace in Seville my last turn. It seemed like the best place, and will only take ~13 turns.

Also, I left a couple artists in some of the spanish cities, I'm trying to get enough culture to fend off Khan's borders for a bit. These should be fired soon...

Finally, the save:
 
Are we at the point where we might be able to avoid war (except in limited skirmishes) for the rest of the game? Can we win this via diplomacy?
 
The one thing that worries me is who our opponent would be in the vote. After the war with Izzy, I think Khan might have the highest population, and of course he is our best friend. Right now Mao is at war with Monry, and he took one of Monty's cities during my turns. Maybe we can look for a way to get Mao a bigger population, so he would be our opponent.
 
I need to double-check the save, but I'm thinking Mansa would be our best opponent. We do definitely need to start thinking about it.
 
Yes, I agree that Mansa would be best. He's not well liked by anyone IIRC. I too would have to look at the save to see how large Mansa population-wise.
 
Maquis said:
And Izzy won't be voting for us, nor anyone else for that matter.
Hey! Nobody saved any :hammer: for me! You couldn't leave me a lone Spearman in that last city? That is just not right! :D Oh well, it is probably for the best. With my RNG, I would have lost a CRIII Grenadier trying to take out that lone spear. :lol:

ChrTh said:
Are we at the point where we might be able to avoid war (except in limited skirmishes) for the rest of the game? Can we win this via diplomacy?
That would be my presumption. That power graph that Scowler posted may say otherwise, though. We definitely will need to keep building at least some troops.

Maquis said:
Maybe we can look for a way to get Mao a bigger population, so he would be our opponent.
Interesting thought, whether it be Mao or Mansa. The only way that I know to help a civ grow bigger, though, is to join them in a war. Is this something that we want to start planning?
 
The only way that I know to help a civ grow bigger, though, is to join them in a war. Is this something that we want to start planning?

We could... As I noted earlier, Mansa is at war with Monty right now. We could possibily join him and let Mansa take Monty's cities.
 
Who's the biggest civ?

CTIV-7_Population.JPG


We are! Followed by Mao, Mansa, and Khan. But, of course, that is only meaningful if the election were to be held today. So, who has the most growth potential? Well, just eyeballing the numbers above, it looks to me that Khan has the most growth potential. Cyrus is probably maxed out and Mao is not too far from max population. But, Khan and Mansa both have room to grow.

And, as Maquis noted, Mansa is currently at war with Monty. If Mansa takes the last two Aztec cities, a very real possibility, his population would be close to Mao's but with a lot more growth potential. If that happens, Mansa will most likely be our opponent.

Below is a look at the trade relations and what each civ thinks of us. I've also summarized what they think of each other.

CTIV-7_Relations.JPG


As you can see, we are on good terms with Mao, Khan, and Cyrus. If the elections were held today, surely at least one of those three would vote for us. It would be nice if we could keep all three of those guys happy with us. Mao and Khan shouldn't be a problem, but Cyrus may be a bit tricky.

I'm not really sure of our best course of action. But until it is clearly evident who our opponent will be in the UN elections, I feel that we should at least attempt to keep relations status quo. What does the rest of the team think?
 
Hrmmm...a bit of a bind, methinks. Khan would vote for us, I think, instead of Mao, because I think we should be about +3 ahead of Mao in relations with Khan. Mao would vote for us, but of course he'd vote for himself. Us+Khan is only 50%.

The -1 for "declaring war on our friend" should disappear in time from Cyrus. Traded with Worst Enemies ... who is Persia's worst enemy again? Oh good, Monty. If we have any active deals with him (I don't think we do) we should cancel.

Civics:
Favorite Civic
--------------
Mao -- State Property
Cyrus -- Representation
Kublai -- Hereditary Rule

We're going to want Mao, Cyrus, and Kublai all +10 or higher with us. Even if one of the three is our opponent, as long as our score is higher than with the opponent, we should win with 2 of these joining us.

Hereditary Rule and Representation are opposite; we can only get a Civics bonus from one or the other. State Property can give us the bonus from Mao. Obviously we should switch based on our opponent: if it's Khan, switch to Representation, if it's Cyrus, switch to Hereditary Rule.

Any demands from the 3 should probably be caved into. Even if Khan appears to be our opponent, you never know when someone will pass him. Obviously we don't want to declare war against any of the 3, so hopefully they won't fight each other.
 
We should also try to trade more with Cyrus to build up our "trade relations have been forthright"
 
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