CTP2 vs CIV3: any thoughts?

[ajohn505]

I'm a Civ3 player right now, but I'm thoroughly disappointed in the game, and was wondering if anyone who's played both would care to make some comparisons, pros/cons, etc.

There's just too many little flaws in CiV3, including the atrocious turn times in the late game, unlimited railroad movement, slow naval movement, etc, that make it more annoying than fun to play at times.

I'm looking forward to the next Civ-killer that comes out, but until then: any thoughts on the Civ3/CTP rivalry?

 

[The Rusty Gamer]

They are different games. There is room for both on my hard drive and in my heart. The Medieval and Cradle modpacks for CTP2 enhance CTP2 a huge amount. In fact, I wouldn't recommend CTP2 straight out of the box.

 

[ajohn505]

Yeah... I suppose that's kind of what I expected to hear from some people; I know they aren't similar enough to be directly compared.

still waiting for the Civ-killer...

Voot

 

[fire_dragon54]

I was so enthused when i bought Civ3, i was even more when Gamespot gave it 9.7 and the best game of the year award (wasn't it?).
Well here's my verdict on Civ3; could've been a lot better! Ok sure they added some neat things like strategic resources and better diplomacy but i just feel CTP2 has alot more to offer! I bought CTP2 a few days ago cos i was gettin' sick of Civ3!
In terms of gameplay value i would whole-heartedly vote for CTP2, Civ3 just dosen't hit that spot for me, it's too bland..

 

[SvenSlayer]

I just couldn't stand CTP2! Yes, it has a more features than Civ3 (like extra civs, etc.) but I hate the interface! I got the game, played it for one or two days and never touched it again.

I definitely vote for Civ3!

 

[General Ike]

some pluses for CTP:

1. more goverments

2. more civilizations

3. more wonders

some minuses for CTP:

1. too easy to start wars (send that enemy slaver over, i'll put him in slavery and start a war at the same time)


now for civIII.

pluses:

1. easy interface.

2. you can see your boarders

3. more ways to win

4. Leaders

Minus:

1 can't teraform the land

2. can't turn pollution off

3. can't inprove farmland

 

[Xenon]

Civ3 has excellent AI and diplomacy.
CTP2 has an awesome technology tree but it has a much worse diplomacy (plus your opponents almost never accept anything without a threat) and a very poor AI. But I consider public works idea better than workers because you don't have a railroad in every square on the map with this system. And I dislike the absence of citizens that you place on a preferred square in the city (CTP1 didn't lack yhis option) I'd say CTP2 is a good idea but a bad manifestation of this idea.

 

[RenegadeXH]

I dont know, ive played all of the civ games, and im currently hooked to civ 3. While i played the ctp series, i have to say, i think it was definatly not the height of the series, infact i perfered civ 2 gold edition to it. Mainly because of the scenarios . The scenarios problem is of course also a problem to civ 3, but i still think its a great game.

 

[Tripa]

I have also played all civ games. All where good in there time.
But Civ3/CTP2 is a very hard choise so here is what do.
When i am online i will go play CTP2
When i am offline i will go play Civ3
This makes it easy for me, the question is.
When Civ3 brings out MP will it still be the same I dont know coz I still like CTP2 more but only online (AI are to Easy) but Civ3 is a challange offline (no MP) so i will prob play online for a while and if i like it i might just have to start playing both online

 

[Lab Rat]

Originally posted by General Ike
some pluses for CTP:

1. more goverments

2. more civilizations

3. more wonders

some minuses for CTP:

1. too easy to start wars (send that enemy slaver over, i'll put him in slavery and start a war at the same time)


now for civIII.

pluses:

1. easy interface.

2. you can see your boarders

3. more ways to win

4. Leaders

Minus:

1 can't teraform the land

2. can't turn pollution off

3. can't inprove farmland

Civ 3 has an easy interface?!?!? Its terrible, compared to Ctp 1 anyway, even ctp2. It all seems too bare and theres too much shift+random key pressing to get anything done. I think its obvious they didnt included any on screen interface because the game runs as slow as a tortoise wading through treacle. I always thought one of the plus points about civ games was all the little fiddley bits and finding out what they all did, and trying to tweak it all (easily) to get the best from your civ.
Number 2, you can see your borders, erm well thats a plus for Ctp2 also then.
I do agree that the leaders are a good idea though.

But the point is, Ctp2 is a different game but IMHO is a better gaming experience, but only with MOD's or online.

 

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by General Ike
some minuses for CTP:

1. too easy to start wars (send that enemy slaver over, i'll put him in slavery and start a war at the same time)

Actual it is the same thing to send a unit to an enemy city or unit and attack it.

Originally posted by General Ike
Minus:

1 can't teraform the land

2. can't turn pollution off

3. can't inprove farmland

4. Time wasting worker micromanagement was the answer on the demand no more settlers instead of PW

5. You can't add gouvernmets, terrain types, wonders, units, tile improvments, buildings, advantages, orders, feats, ai goals, concepts....

6. No slic that allows you to add a city kill option and enslave the whole population when you capture a city.

7. Obsolete 8bit 256 color graphics

8. Two patches are already out and the game isn't ok. I expect more for 50?.

9. Time wasting message system.

10. No real scenarios

11. No ZOC

12. No MP

13. No future techs the recreation of history end in the near past

14. No sea cities

15. Under 30 city names per civ in the default version

16. Less than 42 civs in the original version of Civ3


Come on Firaxis if I buy a successor of a great game than I expect more, new and better and not less, something new and not better at least for 50?. You mean Civ3 is something like back to the roots, maybe but if I want to get back to the roots than I keep me to the original. Actual no game costs 50?. If a game is new than 45? are ok and if it 5 month old than maybe 35? and not 45?.

-Martin

 

[Shabbaman]

What I enjoy most of civ3 over ctp2: railroads. In ctp2 your units had to scroll over the whole screen (maglev), in civ3 they're where you want 'em without all the movement thingy. That's good.

At first, I was a bit disappointed in civ3. Compared to civ2 it rocks, but qua units, techs and improvements ctp2 is plain BETTER! But then I found that the diplomacy (read: extortion) of civ3 if better developed and I like the strategic resources a lot. That gives a nice twist at the game. I doubt I will revert to ctp2.

Oh yeah, one last thing: people saying ctp2 s*cks really don't have a clue. (like those people addicted to unreal saying quake s*cks, it just doesn't make sense).

GRTNX

 

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Shabbaman
What I enjoy most of civ3 over ctp2: railroads. In ctp2 your units had to scroll over the whole screen (maglev), in civ3 they're where you want 'em without all the movement thingy. That's good.

Well, you can speed up the process a *lot* by disabling animation, but I agree an instant-move feature would be nice.

I doubt I will revert to ctp2.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played CtP2 with mods? (Cradle, MedMod)

Oh yeah, one last thing: people saying ctp2 s*cks really don't have a clue. (like those people addicted to unreal saying quake s*cks, it just doesn't make sense).

Damn straight!

 

[child of Thor]

MP says it for me. But also i think modded CTP2 is probably a more 'finished' game than Civ3(judging by the forums), and that from a game that was also rushed to the shops! What have they done to our beloved tbs 'civ' games

 

[Morbius]

well, in CTP2 i had the problem that the AI only attacked my cities in the very beginning of the game.
after that, the AI refused to do so.
id there a solution for this problem?

thanx in advance

 

[Locutus]

Yes, download one of the mods. There are many of mods and they all improve the AI a lot but Cradle and World at War have the most aggressive AI. See this thread on Apolyton for a list of the most important mods for CtP2.

 

[Morbius]

thx alot

 

[Archer 007]

I would say Civ3 is much better. It's nowhere near perfect, but CTP2 had some major, MAJOR flaws. Examples:
1. Terrible Diplomacy, even if you where three times more powerful, the AI would not agree to any type of treaty.
2. Highly unrealistic combat, 10 tanks losing to one spearmen just because he's in a city is stupid.
3.PW, this is the dumbes idea ever.
4.Way,way,way too much micromanagement. All the cities were like fussy babies.
5.Turns were like 10 minutes long, and that was early game if you didn't know anyone else.

 

[Dale]

Originally posted by archer_007
I would say Civ3 is much better. It's nowhere near perfect, but CTP2 had some major, MAJOR flaws. Examples:
1. Terrible Diplomacy, even if you where three times more powerful, the AI would not agree to any type of treaty.

True, un-modded diplomacy is crap. We found very early on that by default CTP2 rejects everything. This is now changed in every single mod. Diplomacy is actually very good now. Yes, Civ3 has some better options in diplomacy, but I think CTP2 diplomacy is now more realistic.

2. Highly unrealistic combat, 10 tanks losing to one spearmen just because he's in a city is stupid.

This has been fixed in all the mods too. Balance is achieved.

3.PW, this is the dumbes idea ever.

This is a personal issue. I prefer PW to having 200 workers to move every turn.

4.Way,way,way too much micromanagement. All the cities were like fussy babies.

I've never found it to be. Pretty simple really.

5.Turns were like 10 minutes long, and that was early game if you didn't know anyone else.

Geeze, what machine do you play on? An XT? My turns fly through with 16 civs on ultra-gigantic maps till at least 1500AD. And this is only on a P3-666.

All up, my votes on CTP2. At least we got MP and proper MODability.

 

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by archer_007

2. Highly unrealistic combat, 10 tanks losing to one spearmen just because he's in a city is stupid.

Actual it is highly unrealistic, too if one spearman kills one tank, too.

Originally posted by archer_007

3.PW, this is the dumbes idea ever.

Actual moving 250 settlers (1 per city) around the world is the dumbest idea ever.

Originally posted by archer_007
4.Way,way,way too much micromanagement. All the cities were like fussy babies.

Hey you have build queues just fill the build queue with a bunch of items and leave the city alone until the build queue is empty. Mayors in Civ2 were stupid so this way I can automate my cities. I don't have to care on them actual this is rather grown up like instead of baby like.

Originally posted by archer_007
5.Turns were like 10 minutes long, and that was early game if you didn't know anyone else.

Ten minutes do you mean watching the AI's unit moves, you can disable this. By the way ten minutes for one turn is nothing if you ever played Civ2 on a gigantic map customized for your advantage. I exploited the non random hut bug and got pritty fast a lot of cities, as I had to move all my settlers I needed to move them one hour including all the caravans. But that wasn't all additional my 486 needed to cycle through all my cities half anhour with disabled popup messages, so I had to check over the city manager if my cities were empty, that is baby like if you have to select everytime when a city nothing has to build and select the new item. In Civ3 settlers were replaced by workers, so this need longer than CTP2 it has a not as powerful city management system as CTP2 (popup messages for everything), so Civ3 is definatly slower than CTP2.

-Martin