CTR-AP Games 1-3 Interest Thread

ChrTh

Happy Yule!
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EDIT: I'VE DECIDED TO SHELVE THE CONCEPT UNTIL AFTER THE C3C RELEASE (AND MY ACQUISITION OF THE GAME AT CHRISTMAS). LOOK FOR THIS THREAD TO RE-EMERGE THEN.

I'm looking into starting a series of succession games, 1 at each level (Monarch, Emperor, Deity, in that order) as a stepping stone approach to learning how to win at Deity without killing everything in sight--yep, the AP stands for Always Peace.

Here are the variant rules:
We can never declare war on another Civ, nor can we enter into a diplomatic agreement that could lead to war (such as an MPP). We also can't take the normal actions that could lead to war (planting spy, stealing techs, demanding AI leave, etc.)
We can not build ground units that have a higher attack than defense rating (e.g. swords, archers, etc.); units that have equal values are permitted (e.g. Warriors, Guerillas). Naval and air units are not subjected to this restriction, but should only be used for defensive or transport purposes.
If a Civ declares war on us, we can only fight a defensive war (only attack troops in our territory) with the following exception and exception to the exception:
Exception: Any cities whose cultural borders are contiguous to our own at the start of hostilities can be razed (and replaced by a settler, if desired). Note, however, that we will not have 'offensive' troops with which to do this, so our defensive troops have better be good. In addition, if a city of ours was captured military, we can liberate them (but not if it was cultural flip).
Exception to the Exception: We can not assault a bordering Civ's territory if doing so would trigger an MPP.
Barracks are permissible as we are pacifists, not idiots.
Domination and Conquest are not turned off, as there's nothing stopping the other Civs from being militaristic. A diplomatic victory is not considered a loss. ;)
No purchasing/capturing of other Civs' workers.


This will be done in PTW latest patchset. Civs are up for discussion, but I believe the French, the Carthaginians, and the Americans are well suited (Industrious will help us build up our cities much faster), although it's a group decision. Obviously we can't utilize a Civ that is militaristic, or has a UU with attack greater than defense (although its arguable we could, we just can never build the UU).
Maps will likely be Continents or Pangaea (at least for the earlier difficulties).


For the roster, I would prefer a commitment of all 3 games; before you think that's going to take too long, remember that when you're not fighting constantly turns go by much faster. If you're not sure if you can do all 3, just indicate your desire to play and if not enough people commit to all 3, I'll start the first game with the normal roster. Minimum roster size is 6. Monarch AP will be roughly equivalent to Emperor-Minus in difficulty, Emperor will be roughly equal to Deity or Deity-Minus (depends on start and opponents), and Deity is going to be realllllly tough (which is why we're stepping up one level at a time), so judge your own ability appropriately when deciding whether or not to sign up.

As always, suggestions, etc., are welcome both by joiners and lurkers. This is not the definitive game thread, so I didn't include exploits, etc. Those will be in the individual game threads.
 
I'm mildly interested, except for two things.

I think the real killer restriction you put in was no spies and no steals. That severly limits your already limited options in all-peace.

I would like to play it under Conquests rather than PTW. :D
 
@Rubberjello:

Not really. Since we're not going to be warring with everybody, we don't really need spies, unless it's a race to the spaceship. Also, why would we steal tech? The Player is the best at brokering, and I see no reason why, if reputation is high and war infrequent, we wouldn't easily be able to keep pace (plus the bonus of extra infra builds rather than offensive units). In addition, 2 of the 3 Civs I suggested are Commercial, bringing in extra cash for either, well, cash, or for research.

Conquests can't happen, as I'm being patient and am waiting until Christmas for it...
 
Interesting, this was my first diety victory. It was a space race victory on island continents as Carthage. I traded and max researched the entire game. The game breakers came in the early modern age. An Aztecs amphibious assualt and subsequent landing allowed me to generate a golden age. That gave me Seti and a trade to Egypt that put me in front. I had the Iron works so production was never a problem. :) Good luck, not a sign up.
 
I was specifically referring to the Emporer/Diety versions. Brokering is all fine and dandy if you are not too far behind the AIs in tech. But at Diety level especially, you will find yourself half an age or more behind in techs and maybe even drop out of the 2-fer possiblities. The only way to catch up would be a good steal now and then to get back into the 2-fer race. The above point is especially true in a all-peace mode, where the AIs have a propensity for peaceful also, which guarantees a very, very, rapid tech pace.

So....I would like to see how you would "easily be able to keep pace" on Diety level by only brokering and self-reasearch. You would need a great start location, and quite a bit of luck with the AIs starting wars amongst each other frequently.
 
Originally posted by Rubberjello

So....I would like to see how you would "easily be able to keep pace" on Diety level by only brokering and self-reasearch. You would need a great start location, and quite a bit of luck with the AIs starting wars amongst each other frequently.

That's why it's called a challenge. Wouldn't be much fun if it were easy, would it? :D

EDIT: If we find in the Emperor level game that keeping up in tech is too hard, we can revisit the 'no steal' rule. The other option would be to play on a larger map with more opponents (I won a Deity GOTM without fighting a single battle; I think the presence of 16 (or was it 24?) Civs helped).
 
I have a couple of comments on some of the parameters.

Due to the way the tech tree is setup, it is almost impossible for the Human to player to research and trade in the Indistrial Age. The middle ages has essentially to paths to research up. The Industrial Age has six second tier techs that can be researched. At this point in the game, you may be able to research at 15 turns. The AI will be hitting anywhere from your 15 to as low as 4. Secondly, the tech that the AI is most likely to go for initially (Nationalism and Communism) are way over priced and difficult to trade for with the AI even at 4th civ pricing. This usually means that you either give up all research yourself (making you fall behind) or you do what you can to hit ToE and even that in most games will only give you parity going into the modern age. Too many of the techs needed to win come available at the same time, Steam, Idustrialization, Sanitation, SciMeth, and Replacable Parts. Which ones can you trade for and which ones are you going to pay 500gpt to get? To make this long point shorter, you need to be able to selectively steal tech. You can even do it at a time in which you won't get a declaration if caught. Get a big gpt deal going towards the AI and then if you are caught you get a mood hit and not war. Doing what you can to increase the success of this (IntelAgency, Spies) actually decreases the chance of war (so to speak). Maybe, if you trigger a war with a spy or a steal then you have to get peace at any cost as soon as you can (with the exception of maybe giving up cities).

Second, I would allow the building of offensive troops, but only after war was declared and once peace is made, they must be disbanded as soon as possible into a peaceful infrastructure build. That way you can mitigate the Cav vs pike slaughter by defensively hitting the units before they can hit you. You might even put a restriction on their use to raze cities. If you get an early war declaration, you might be happy you had a few archers and not all spears. Also need to successfully defend are bombard units. They are all attack and no defense, so do they become illegal? These are critical early defense units.

When you play this on diety you will need to make sure the starting location can produce settlers as quickly as possible. If you don't get enough space, you will slowly fall farther and farther behind. I would also go with an industrious/scientific civ as you will need all the help you can get. Good Luck!
 
@meldor,

I will consider your words of wisdom. :)

And yes, I should've mentioned it: Bombardment units aren't just allowed, they're mandatory! ;)
 
Oh! Fine! You listen to Meldor but not to me! :p :p :p
(Just kidding)
Meldor explained it much better and more effort into it.
Are you *SURE* you are going to wait for Conquests for the holidays? That wait would drvie me buggy!:crazyeye:
 
I'm quite the patient individual. I didn't get PTW for months...
But yeah, it'll be painful if I see it at Best Buy tomorrow when I do my normal Tuesday stop...
 
Originally posted by meldor
That is a polite way of saying bugger-off... :D

Nah, a polite way to say bugger-off is: Thank you for your input, and we will address your concerns with our next release. :D
 
Since I understand that PTW will be included in C3C, if you wait to start until it comes out (I'm pre-ordered) I'd like to be part of the Monarch or Emperor teams. Diety would eat me up.

Civ-wise, have you considered the Greeks? I don't think there is a better AA defensive UU. Plus Scientific and Commercial is a powerful combination.
 
@Sir Bugsy, yes, I have thought about the Greeks, but I've been leaning towards Industrial

@All: With C3C due shortly I'm going to delay this until next year and recreate it with C3C. I'll post a new thread at that time.
 
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