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Cuba US: John Kerry reopens Havana embassy on historic trip

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Agent327, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    You do recognize that they still have those nukes, right? The "end of the cold war" just means we all stopped talking about them.
     
  2. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    You mean like how so many Republicans think of Ronald Reagan as a demigod? How he singlehandedly caused the demise of the Soviet Union, even though it was ready to collapse before he even became president? How he took us to the brink of nuclear war yet again and was so addled he may have actually pushed the button given half a chance?

    Even today many people are still fighting the Cold War. Just look at the threads in this forum. They still can't help but continue to portray Russia as a threat to world peace. How even China, which has also never shown any real signs of global imperialism as the US continues to do, may be a potentially new Soviet Union.

    The warmongers need someone to be the enemy. Otherwise they can't rationalize and justify "defrauding" the taxpayers of even more untold trillions of dollars in military-industrial "welfare". Just look at the comments that Colonel and Scarlet King made in this thread. They think might does make right. That it continues to be vastly important that the US continues to remain the biggest bully. That we continue to proudly salute our "brave" servicemen who believe all the lies they have been told their entire lives, een though it is obvious their jobs really have nothing at all to do with actually "defending" this country from "enemies" who have no desire whatsoever to subjugate us. Or if they might, like North Korea, they clearly don't pose any sort of actual threat to accomplishing it whatsoever.

    WOLVERINES!
     
  3. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    With respect to China Formy, what are your opinions on the territorial disputes in the South China Sea? It hardly seems a stretch to see some of their claims as distinctly imperialist.
     
  4. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Those are too local to qualify as "imperialist" in my opinion. Imperialism, to me, is that strictly European (and derivatives) concept of "the other side of the planet owes us something." Squabbling with the neighbors is just part of life, it isn't the path to world domination.
     
  5. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    By that definition the Roman Empire was just a border squabble.
     
  6. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Apparently the excuse was good enough given we were able to do it for fifty years. If it wasn't a good excuse, the world clearly would've put a stop to it. Since it didn't, we are right and the Cubans were wrong.

    QED.

    Yes, because I'm right. It isn't hyperbole when you're right. It is when you're wrong, like you. If you weren't wrong, it wouldn't be hyperbole, and Cuba wouldn't have been embargoed the last fifty years.

    Correct. If Cuba wasn't weak, it would be right. Since it is weak, clearly they're morally wrong.

    Reagan Bashing? ☑

    Russia apologist? ☑

    US big bully, literally worse than North Korea ☑

     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    A series of border squabbles perhaps. But I think it is reasonable to say that the definition of "local" was quite a bit different in their day. In most respects the perspective on the Roman Empire is skewed pretty heavily by the European view that the Romans "controlled the entire civilized world," which is far from accurate.
     
  8. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    Well, this one is true, North Korea doesn't bully anyone, except to some extent, South Korea.
     
  9. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    That is why I said global imperialism. Like everybody else, they are merely trying to gain control of area near their own border which may turn out to have oil. The Japanese and the Filipinos are being just as imperialist in this regard.

    So we can add "morally" to the list of words and phrases you continue to misuse.

    Speaking of which, back to that nonsensical "talking point" argument again? You do realize that refers to bodies like the Republican Party which uses "talking points" to coach their sycophants what to say? It does not refer in any way to the opinions of individuals who clearly have no such allegiances? :crazyeye:

    You are never going to convince the authoritarian conservative warmongers of that. They have to have their make-believe threats to rationalize their xenophobic view of the world. To continue to believe that the US must use the military to inflict their prejudices and "morals" on the rest of the world.

    The only "bully" left is the US. And they literally gloat about it. This is the reason North Korea developed nuclear weapons. It is also the reason why the majority of young South Koreans now no longer like and respect the US because we are endangering their lives with this nonsensical saber-rattling which ended with Clinton and was restarted by Bush.
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Do you have an internet video experience to support the idea that that is the only usage Formy? Or are you just expecting everyone to conform to your designated common practices?
     
  11. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    I don't think that really is what people think, at least no more than people in China think that the Han dynasty controlled the entire civilised world.
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I don't believe they commonly think it, but it was the contemporary line of thinking at the time of the Roman Empire so it is reflected in their histories and their philosophies. That has impact on current thinking when it is done in an offhanded way. For example, you brought up the Roman Empire as a counterexample in response to my statement on Imperialism requiring something beyond a local action as if the Roman Empire had had some sort of global scope, even though you know full well that it really didn't.

    Your reference may well have carried if I were someone who, even knowing it wasn't accurate, did not actively reject the "entire civilized world" self image the Romans maintained. Nothing wrong with it. We all do the same kind of things and when dealing mostly with people operating in the same frame of reference it works out fine.
     
  13. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    So does this mean I can vacation in Cuba now?
     
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Not yet, but hopefully soon.
     
  15. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    That seems a mite revisionist. You can only describe the Roman Empire as non-global from a later perspective. As far as the Romans knew they, like Alexander, saw 'no more lands to conquer'. We could say the same about the Mongol Empire. By the same rationale a later civilisation, looking at territory on mars could view the British Empire as 'local'.

    Expansionist militarism is Imperialism, regardless of how big the area involved. IMO
     
  16. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Not really.
    The Romans definitely had contact with states in India and China (indeed, most Roman cavalry horses were sourced originally from Central Asia). There are numerous records of diplomatic exchanges with China. (In fact, the Byzantine Empire was able to get its own source of silk production -bypassing Persia- because some Christian monks traveled to China and smuggled some silkworms out.)
     
  17. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Yes.

    But it is one thing to use military power in the waters off your own shore just like Japan and China continue to do.

    It is quite another to go halfway around the world and assassinate people you don't like with standoff weapons fired by someone sitting in the US. All because you can't arrest them because you have no evidence they have done anything actually criminal. To incessantly meddle in their affairs, and even depose their governments while trying to assassinate their leaders, so that eventually some of their citizens finally feel they must commit acts of terrorism to fight back against an "asymmetrical" military force.
     
  18. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    All sounds very 'delenda est Carthago' to me. Sorry. Imperialist powers have always been arrogant, just because the means and distances have changed doesn't make it somehow fundamentally different.

    @Ajidica: that undermines Tims stance as well. I suspected something of the kind, after all with no more lands to conquer Alexander went off to try to conquer India.
     
  19. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Then I'm sure you are just as critical of Japan and the Philippines for doing essentially the same thing, along with most every other country which borders the sea. Even the Falklands can be seen in terms of offshore oil deposits.
     
  20. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Is this turning into one of those weird hard-left conversations where I am expected to state a position for every issue the International currently has an opinion on before I am allowed to say anything?
     

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