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Cuba US: John Kerry reopens Havana embassy on historic trip

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Agent327, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    Hey guys. Remember that time Cubans hijacked planes and crashed them into the Twin Towers? No? Then none of this is relevant.
     
  2. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Nope. Only 19 people were directly responsible. But it did require millions of dollars and extensive preparation and support, including teaching some of them to fly multi-engine passenger jets by using real flight simulators. That there was likely a network of support people in the US who have still mysteriously not been identified being prominent Saudi Arabian royalty who disappeared just before 9/11 while leaving major assets behind.

    And it is far simpler to carry out a major terrorist activity that is smaller in scale but still extremely devastating. All it takes is a few hundred pounds of fertilizer and fuel oil, a rental van, and one of hundreds of easily accessible targets in any major city in the US. Timothy McVeigh did it. So did the group that originally bombed the WTC.

    This is from the person who was just talking about "Aregentina and Brazil stuff" while even bringing Venezuela into the discussion?

    :rotfl:
     
  3. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Because those countries once had an influential role in Cuba, but now they don't, which is why they were desperate to get American help.
     
  4. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    In other words, it has to do with nonsensical authoritarian conservative propaganda about the evils of cooperative socialism in the Western Hemisphere, none of which is directly pertinent to a thread about the US finally reopening the embassy in Havana.
     
  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    Actually, I was the one who brought those two countries into the discussion. My point was that Cuba needs new soruces of financing after the friendly stronkmen are gone in a few months. (As a measure of Argentina's government's desperation, in last week's election, their candidate got more votes at one polling station than the total number of votes cast at said station. Probably better to discuss it in the maths thread.)

    But back to the Cuban issue and how they'll react.

    Forma, I pretty much agree with many if not most of your points about how the US' political elites blunder through both at home and abroad and often reap what they've sown, but this thread is about the future and not the past, otherwise we can just link to one of the older neverending mudfling-fests and close the thread.
     
  6. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    New talking point: how much influence has the Pope's mediation had on this? How much might it still have?
     
  7. Nares

    Nares Emperor

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    It won't. If anything, it will prompt a crackdown out of fear that the people are being exposed to anti-Castro sentiment.

    Apparently, human life only matters if its loss can be exploited by Western SJWs.
     
  8. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Actually, he brought all this up with this wacky nonsense that Cuba "reached out" to the US to supposedly mooch off someone else:

     
  9. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Deity

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    The 9/11 Commission says they don't exist.

    I think you're thinking of those whom the Bush administration whisked quickly out of the country AFTER 9/11 even though a nationwide ban on flying was in place.
     
  10. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Well, in that case they can't possibly exist. Right?

    Nope.

    I'm specifically referring to the Saudis who lived in Sarasota Florida who mysteriously left the country a week before 9/11 leaving their expensive house and many of their belongings behind. A house which is known to have been visited by Mohhammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi, the two terrorists who who piloted the planes that hit the WTC prior to 9/11.

    Senator Bob Graham has been spearheading the efforts to have it all properly investigated and the information released so that the families of those killed on 9/11 can get compensation from the perpetrators of these crimes. As the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time, he has detailed knowledge of what secret evidence was not divulged regarding this matter. He wants it released, but he has been getting stonewalled by the US government.

    It seems pretty clear to me that the US government has decided to cover up the direct involvement of prominent Saudis in 9/11. That they even had the aid of some of them living in the US at the time. That ex-Senator Graham was apprised of all of it while he was directly investigating the matter. But he cannot divulge those details because they are classified.:

    Florida Ex-Senator Pursues Claims of Saudi Ties to Sept. 11 Attacks

    This is the house they just left behind:



    Sarasota family had 'many connections' to 9/11 terror attacks

     
  11. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    I literally have not brought up Argentina or Brazil once at all in this entire thread. The only time I've mentioned Argentina in this thread was when somebody else talking to me brought it up, or brought it up in a separate post. I have not, once, gone out of my goal to bring it up. You realized this pretty quickly too because you shift the goal posts in the next quote.

    This was the opinion of a lot of outlets ranging from the New York Times to Eurasian Review

    Forma. You're really really really out of your depth here. I don't know what you do for a living or what your schooling involves, but mine involves finance and economics (major in the former, minoring in the latter). I look, and read, up on topics related to my fields of interest which is why I can, if pressed, link article after article of analysis drawing the lines between the drop in oil and commodity prices to Cuban rapprochement.

    Like, this is incredibly embarrassing. It is embarrassing that for somebody who spends hours upon hours upon hours upon hours ranting about le Republicans and connecting dots like a 9/11 Truther that you can't take ten minutes to actually read. Read about Cuba and the importance of Venezuela oil and why that would have a large impact on Cuba fiscally and economically. What is just called "wacky nonsense" is the widely accepted view of why Cuba reached out (and nobody on this planet who has been following this since the beginning would say Cuba didn't reach out).

    I can't have an educated intelligent conversation with you about this because you're not very well-informed or educated on this matter. Nobody who has actually been reading up on this development would say your views on the development are well-informed or educated. Or even coherent. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is. This isn't me attacking you. This is just me saying that you can't trade informed views with cookie-cutter statements about the Great American Satan. You simply can't; it doesn't fly outside of a handful of internet forums where reasoned debate isn't cultivated.

    I understand the irony of me appealing to "reasoned and informed conversation" when I'm posting in OT.
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Even in our twisted little corner there are limits, eh?
     
  13. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

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    My limit is .99-bar but not 1 so there is some wiggle room at the very end for me.
     
  14. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Then I'm sure you won't mind providing URLs instead of just mentioning these sources off the top of your head. URLs which contain facts to support this contention instead of the usual posturing and rhetoric commonly found in op-eds. URLs which confirm this is the position of the entire "outlets".

    Even though you obviously don't know anything about my actual "depth" in regard to a topic which I haven't even discussed in this thread? :crazyeye:

    Yet here you are claiming to be some sort of authority merely because you claim to have taken some undergraduate courses in finance and economics, as though that makes your clearly authoritarian and conservative personal opinions far better than anybody else who may or may not have taken similar courses. Are you familiar at all with the logical fallacy of appealing to authority, especially when it is yourself?

    And here come even more obligatory nonsensical personal attacks, as expected...

    What were you just saying about supposedly derailing threads discussing matters you personally think are not relevant?
     
  15. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    You've got some crazy conspiracy theory ideas here Formy. The hijackers did not spend millions of dollars in backing to learn to fly multi engined jet airliners in flight simulators. They took a handful of lessons on how to fly light aircraft from a small company.
     
  16. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    I never claimed they spent millions doing so, now did I?

    But it is extremely well documented that the attack did indeed cost millions of dollars. And all four pilots spent time flying actual flight simulators of multi-engine commercial aircraft while even admitting they had no interest whatsoever practicing takeoffs and landings. Statements which should have immediately caused the owners of the flight simulators to contact the FBI and keep them busy until they were apprehended. Instead, they took their money and allowed them to gain invaluable experience on how to properly operate these aircraft while already in flight.

    Your opinion of a "conspiracy theory" appears to be based on not actually knowing much about this matter. I have read the official 9/11 report cover to cover and I have spent considerable time since then staying familiar with this topic. I am quite well versed in the details.

    If you want to peremptorily dismiss the statements of the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committed at the time because you personally think it is a "conspiracy theory", that is certainly your right to do so despite him knowing far more about this matter than we do. But you can't intentionally overlook the basic facts which are quite well publicly documented, including the fact that both hijackers who flew the planes into the WTC visited this house. That the owners of the house mysteriously left the country one week prior to 9/11 and went back to Saudi Arabia. That they were extremely well connected with Saudi royalty.
     
  17. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Where is this well documented?
     
  18. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    What part? The cost and that the four pilots flew fight simulators while claiming to not be interested at all in takeoffs and landings? It's all in the official 9/11 commission report.

    http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf

    Read it for yourself.

    The other facts are discussed above in the articles I even highlighted.
     
  19. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Page 169 "The 9/11 plotters eventually spent between $400,000 and $500,000 to plan and conduct their attack."

    Where's the rest of the millions?
     
  20. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    I recollected the official number was higher than that. But it is an estimate that is predicated on a number of assumptions, including a huge one that the hijackers did not bring any funds with them or even received a dime from other sources.

    It is also highly contested by Graham and others based on the secrect information which they were privy, as well as by independent investigations by others. So the actual amount ls likely considerably low-balled as part of the cover up of Saudi direct involvement in the plot. If they claimed the funding was higher than the specific transactions which were identified, they couldn't very well claim they had no support from other individuals who are apparently embarrassing to the US government to publicly identify.

    Further details regarding how contentious this issue still remains even today can be found here:

    Saudi Arabia and the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

    This was no cheap operation. It actually required "extensive support operations", contrary to what you previously posted even if you use the lower estimate by the 9/11 commission.
     

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