Cultivating a dose of Anglophilia!

[cabert]

you're used to me, always with an exception. sometimes i need a faster land grab than your settling example will give me. a couple of times i've used a very early GA to bomb purely to grab land. not even necessarily in a future legendary (heretic alert!). like on inland seas, where it's guaranteed crowded and the land grab is atrocious, sometimes i judge it worthwhile to officially own the territory so that i don't have to wait around to flip the stupid AI cities they put in the spots i don't want which block the spots i do want.

yes i am an oddball.

the bomb will bring you to level 4 only (you're still under 5000), so it's not THAT good for a landgrab.
Can be good to flip cultureless cities, though = 2nd level landgrab.

 

[KMadCandy]

not to flip cities. to seal the territory so they can't creep in. that map can get REALLY bad .

 

[cabert]

not to flip cities. to seal the territory so they can't creep in. that map can get REALLY bad .

If you flip the city, there is no more border tension.
You get a BAD diplomatic hit for disputed tiles if you don't flip the cities.
(I know JC hits almost certainly if you push him hard culturally, I don't know for AC)

 

[FeedBack]

KMad is playing Epic Eleven? Hm.. Need to find some time machine around to play it too... Do you guys know where I can buy one?

Sorry to stall this for not voting yesterday. Mrs FB warned about the lack of groceries yesterday... We had to go to the supermarket...
If there's no problem, I'll submit by tonight (10-12 hours from now).

 

[KMadCandy]

If you flip the city, there is no more border tension.
You get a BAD diplomatic hit for disputed tiles if you don't flip the cities.
(I know JC hits almost certainly if you push him hard culturally, I don't know for AC)

i started off warning you that i'm an oddball and saying i was giving an exception . it wasn't a recommendation for this game. just an off-the-wall approach i've used with success in cultural victories that not everyone has thought of (and that some who have thought of consider quite insane *giggle*).

yes you get bad diplomatic hits for close borders. but a negative modifier doesn't always lead to war. positive modifiers don't always prevent it either, and you never know. i still can't get over that trash round where cyrus went into theocracy within the first five turns and DoWd some of us, and in some he didn't. this games is just funky.

my current game with aggressive AI turned on, what will really shock you is that i, your neighborhood peaceloving hippy, declared war on someone! not even a phony war joining in with someone, an actual "ring ring, discuss something else, head on a pole for you" type war. i bet you didn't think i could do that *giggle*. well, he had stuff i wanted. that stuff is mine now . part of why i picked him is that all of his neighbors are already my neighbors. so no close border tensions with any new suspects. altho it just might push one guy from -3 to -4 if they can go that high. he me tho. i hope it stays that way.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I'm a bit confused by this and Cam's earlier post. If there is an agreed strategy that everyone has to follow, what will the differences in the saves be? Diplomatic and random events only I think. I thought the idea of these games was to show different strategies. Essentially you could be asking people to play the game in a way they don't think is best or don't feel comfortable with.

As I said in my spoiler for my turns, I went for the strategy that I would use in this situation realising that very probably no-one would vote for it but it's an example of one way (among many) to get a culture victory.

As we're not playing fix the trash it shouldn't be too difficult to win regardless of the strategies.

Just let people play how they want. It may show everyone a few tricks they didn't know about.

I agree. Of course, one should pay attention where the winning save in each round was headed and consider whether the goal pursued there should be followed up, but I don't think we all should try to play exactly the samne game. UIt would be bopring, and ti wouldn't very educational either.

That is to say, if some is, for example, building the Parthenon, I'd think twice about changing the build command to something else.

 

[cabert]

I agree. Of course, one should pay attention where the winning save in each round was headed and consider whether the goal pursued there should be followed up, but I don't think we all should try to play exactly the samne game. UIt would be bopring, and ti wouldn't very educational either.

That is to say, if some is, for example, building the Parthenon, I'd think twice about changing the build command to something else.

at some point, there will be a push for cultural.
If there is a lot of effort put in a specific strat, changing it will lead to a wacky game.
It's very sensible in the diplo field and in the final push (which 3 cities? cottages or specialists).
That's why I didn't want to start a trash game for cultural. But going with the strongest round each time, we don't have to fear too much.
Just be aware that changing strat (I mean the global thing, not the building details) will lead to a lesser game = not selected.

As for selection, first round best game was Kmad's according to the votes (I still didn't open the games, so I can't really say if I agree or not, nor can I give precise advice).

edit 3 : some general advice (I was asked to give some, so I do it. Feel free to disregard):
This is the first diplomatic round, I see 3 big options :
- going to war against Rome (closest neighbour). A solid option, since a second capital generally makes a good great person farm/wanabee legendary. It removes quite a few trading options though.
- using religions to form one solid block = trading with everyone is possible. Also a solid option, but it doesn't give you the cities to work with. Meaning that you need to expand fast in every possible direction to get/block the land you need.
- Trying to remain peaceful and letting religions spread their own way, and chosing side after that. Luck needed, since it's very possible that all your neighbours end up with a different religion. Not my favourite move, but it requires no building time = freeing time for whatever you need (wonders/settlers/workers/...)
Fogbusting is necessary at this point. Kmad has given you quite a lot of units to do so, just do it.
IMHO, 2 religions isn't enough and it's easier to try to get either confu+philo by gunning to liberalism (GS) or judaism+christianity by oracling theology. It's possible at this point to do both, but this would result in a slower liberalism than usual (detour in the research+less worker techs to start with+risk of great prophet instead of GSs). I'm a religion culturer usually so if I see an option to grab all religions, I try (taking DR with liberalism is also an option, I know some people won't agree ).

This was long, so a reminder : congrats to Kmad .

 

[KMadCandy]

Just be aware that changing strat (I mean the global thing, not the building details) will lead to a lesser game = not selected.

hahaha why am i not surprised that i wasn't ever picked in the space race game? well i'm sure you need no hints about what my global strategy was, but i'll type it anyway: i prayed that my full-out effort would be rewarded with the luck needed to settle the city spot of my dreams . but we're left with a long to-do list of course since the full-out effort had me put off many things *giggle*.

silly note: as i mentioned, i played on hubby's computer that night. the picture i took of beating gus to the spot, i'd named "hahagus.jpg" and saved it on his desktop so i could find it. my parents have a bulldog named gus. hubby opened that file expecting to see a picture of that gus and was quite confused .

edit: i won't be able to play a round before i leave town but it dawned on me that doesn't really matter since i'm exempt for the first time ever! i'm very interested to see what other people do with my little world *giggle*.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

As for selection, first round best game was Kmad's according to the votes (I still didn't open the games, so I can't really say if I agree or not, nor can I give precise advice).

edit 3 : some general advice (I was asked to give some, so I do it. Feel free to disregard):
This is the first diplomatic round, I see 3 big options :
- going to war against Rome (closest neighbour). A solid option, since a second capital generally makes a good great person farm/wanabee legendary. It removes quite a few trading options though.
- using religions to form one solid block = trading with everyone is possible. Also a solid option, but it doesn't give you the cities to work with. Meaning that you need to expand fast in every possible direction to get/block the land you need.
- Trying to remain peaceful and letting religions spread their own way, and chosing side after that. Luck needed, since it's very possible that all your neighbours end up with a different religion. Not my favourite move, but it requires no building time = freeing time for whatever you need (wonders/settlers/workers/...)
Fogbusting is necessary at this point. Kmad has given you quite a lot of units to do so, just do it.
IMHO, 2 religions isn't enough and it's easier to try to get either confu+philo by gunning to liberalism (GS) or judaism+christianity by oracling theology. It's possible at this point to do both, but this would result in a slower liberalism than usual (detour in the research+less worker techs to start with+risk of great prophet instead of GSs). I'm a religion culturer usually so if I see an option to grab all religions, I try (taking DR with liberalism is also an option, I know some people won't agree ).

This was long, so a reminder : congrats to Kmad .

Yes, congratulations, Maddy! The right game won. That city site is awesome. Now we need to ensure that Augustus doesn't expand past us to the south. Let's hope he and Washington decide to dislike each other. Incidentally, I favour trying to discover Seafaring early, since that does wonders for spreading your religion to neighbouring civs.

In other words, I favour trying to be peaceful and trade with our neighbours. If we annoy Augustus and Mao, we'll be dead meat - certainly at his stage.

 

[Mutineer]

Spoiler :

Well, my main direction was economical development.
So, I went well-pottery-bronse working-massonry-priesthood-writing(1)

Currently we are proud owners of 4 warrior, 4 workers 1 axe.

I am building Oracle in capital, should be easy Col from it. (With second worker help mine plain hill)

Source of stone is secured. I had little hope of building cheap stonehenge, but it is gone.
All cities are connected, cooper mined.

2 posible plans from current positions:
1) Take axe to AC
2) chop piramids in second city. It has a lot of forests and we have bunch of workers.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/84898/Elizabeth_the_Cultured_Mutineer_BC-0875.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Ozbenno]

Well done KMad! That city spot is great.

What's the deadline for next round?

EDIT: When do we play until as well?

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Well done KMad! That city spot is great.

What's the deadline for next round?

EDIT: When do we play until as well?

To quote Cam's note starting this thread:

The Play

Weekly - games to be posted at latest by early Saturday morning 'American time'. Typically there will be about five days to play and two days to compare games and vote. Players are asked to save their posted games with their 'handle' / name so the player's game is identifiable from others'. Round duration to be determined by agreement, however the traditional format;
4000 BC to 2400 BC
2400 BC to 875BC
875BC to 125 AD
125 AD to 1000 AD
1000 AD to 1400 AD
1400 AD to 1650 AD
1650 AD to 1820AD
1820 AD to 1900 AD

(I suppose this is what Mutineer has done already.)

Edit: I'll start mine now. Having a Great Prophet to build the shrine can do wonders for one's economy, but the Parthenon is important too. Personally, I think I'll go for building the Parthenon, build a city on that rather promising city site northeast of London (sugar and one other luxury resource) to block access to the one east of London (both can be built in advantageous spots without any tiles overlapping with London's fat cross), settle our fourth city among the dye in the south AND BUILD UP THE ARMY TO AVOID A WAR WITH AUGUSTUS. Later on, a Great Prophet can probably be farmed - we need two: one for the shrine and one for lightbulging Theology. The Oracle can help us there, and we won't necessarily "contaminate" the production of Great Artists beyond redemption. These be my peferred goals at present.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

And here is my game.

Spoiler :

Moderately successful, but at least I founded a third city at a good site and whipped up some defence against the barbarian archers that have started to come rushing in. The horses near York will go to Washington.

2080 BC: Buddhism founded in a distant land.
1920: My warrior scout in the west was killed by barbarian archers. No use trying to send another scout until we have an open borders agreement, which won't happen anytime soon.
1720: Judaism founded by Mao, who converted to it.
1600: Discovered BW, began to research Pottery, adopted slavery. After Pottery, I researched Priesthood.
1080: Decided to convert to Hinduism.
1040: Began to research Masonry.
1000: Someone built the Great Wall somewhere. Big deal.
900: Founded Nottingham. We need to research Iron Working soon, but we also need Writing and more religions.

Washington has converted to Judaism, which isn't good. But perhaps we can make him convert to Hinduism. Trying to make Agustuis and Washignton friendly to us by means of our religion is absolutely worth it.
We *need* the Parthenon.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61698/Elizabeth_the_Cultured_jevind_BC-0875.CivWarlordsSave

 

[pigswill]

Culture? Isn't that the stuff you use to grow bacteria?

Spoiler :

Plan for the round: lots of axes while heading towards CoL/Philosophy.
Techwise went BW, wheel, writing, priesthood, CoL.
Buildwise got a couple of barracks, 3 workers, 5 axes, whipped library in York on last turn.
Did a bit of exploring up north:

Spoiler :

both america and rome have marble

.
Found a nice barb city down south, captured on last turn without loss (bit lucky, 2 fights at 60&#37. Its got dye, spices, wine, corn and pigs:


Plan: Get CoL, trade it for alphabet, maths, anything else. Run a couple of scientists in York to get GS for philosophy. More axes. War.

875bc Save:http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/Elizabeth_pigswill_875bc.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Cam_H]

Something to do with yoghurt?

Report added below - as always, these are in 'spoiler' tags for a reason ... please don't read if you're on the roster and yet to post your game.

Spoiler :

2400BC

KMad’s put us in pretty good shape, but I still thought that there was a chance of picking up Buddhism given our rivals’ lack of Spiritual flavour, and heck, we’ll want Meditation anyway, so I made the swap and shifted York’s citizen to work the coast.

• The Wheel (interrupt) > Meditation

2320BC – 1600BC

The gamble pays off; Buddhism is founded in York. England converts to Buddhism and picks up a big Cultural push out of York as a consequence of having a religion in York and not converting to Hinduism earlier. I want to separate the -type pools, and with three food resources plus some grassland, York could act as a respectable -Farm, so I envisage London to eventually work as a Cottage Economy-style city (esp. when Bureaucracy comes in) and don’t want to taint York’s potential Great Artist pool with Great Prophet points. London gives Stonehenge a shot. What a surprise – there’s Copper near London!

• Meditation > Bronze Working
• Bronze Working > The Wheel (continue)

• Tribalism > Slavery

• London: Worker > Warrior > Stonehenge (interrupt) > Settler
• York: Worker > Work Boat

Warrior to the north quickly runs into Barbarians. RIP.

1600BC – 1200BC

Down south we’ve got a better look at the eastern area, where there’s a gazillion Dye tiles, some Pigs, and a Lake. It is not too great right now, but with the Jungle cleared and Plantations/Cottages built, it will be a commercial powerhouse. I want to grab it although this would later send certain contributors to this thread into a frenzy. The other site is the Pigs-Gold to our north-east, although it’s unfortunate that it will share the Pigs with London. Indeed further south of Nottingham there’s another prospectively good site, but maintenance would start to hurt.

• The Wheel > Priesthood
• Priesthood > Pottery

Nottingham is founded in 1440BC. Hastings is founded 1320BC. Buddhism makes its way into Roman cities, and Augustus Caesar converts in 1320BC - presenting himself as a possible comrade against Washington if England was to pursue that path.

• London: Settler > Stonehenge (continue/interrupt) > Settler > Stonehenge (continue)
• York: Work Boat > Buddhist Monastery > Warrior
• Nottingham: > Worker
• Hastings: > Warrior > Worker

1200BC – 875BC

Barbarians are getting restless, and start appearing from the south. An Archer approaches York and thankfully mills around for a couple of turns before crossing our cultural border – enough time for Rome to get an Axeman out and try to cut it off - thankfully he does, but not before the Barbarian pillages the Wheat Farm. York’s Buddhist Missionary succeeds to spread the faith in London in 900BC. There’s trouble brewing at Nottingham in that two Barbarian Warriors (one injured) are threatening, while our Axe has hurried to an adjacent tile.

• Pottery > Writing
• Writing > Masonry

• London: Stonehenge (interrupt) > Axe > Stonehenge > The Oracle
• York: Warrior > Buddhist Missionary > The Parthenon

Conclusion

We’ve picked up Stonehenge and Buddhism, which has also spread to Rome. There are two more self-settled cities in Nottingham and Hastings, although Nottingham will have to fend off a Barbarian threat. Both London and York have just begun their next respective Wonders, although it’s a fairly late run at both. Tech-wise we’re edging towards Theology and/or Literature, and London is now picking up some Great Prophet points. Both cities are growing their populations as at 875BC.

(Images removed)

 

[mice]

My offering. Nothing to do with yogurt. Possibly custard.

Spoiler :

Went BW first and then wheel to hook copper up faster. then priesthood looking for the Oracle. Whipped temple in London.

Sent an axe looking for the stone, but I can't remember where it is

Find the stone and decide that it is doable if I take a risk sending the settler out through a bit if fog to meet my axe. Worker roading into the fog too.

Chopping the Oracle in York and building axes in London until the stone is online.

Settler founds third city with cows and stone in the BFC

GLighthouse and Gwall BIDL

Some barb trouble but nothing dangerous. Axe around to deal with it.

Oracle in 8 with 2 forests to chop. Writing in 7

 

[Ozbenno]

What's that smell? I think my culture's gone off.

Spoiler :

First I suppose I should think about what are the goals for the turnset.

Research wise (I switched from Wheel to BW), Code of Law is the long goal and Pottery is the short goal.

Expansion-wise, another city to grab the horses and a build up of axes to take Rome are on the agenda.

Not really sold on any of the wonders out there at the moment, so won't go for any of them.

London worker --> barracks then axes

Barb archers are about and we don't have any protection London back to a warrior.

Washington steals the horsies , we're pretty crowded here. No mind as it draws the barb archer away from London and we have plenty of territory down south.

Research path went BW, Wheel, Pottery, Priesthood, Writing, Masonry.

Buddhism founded in 1920BC. Wonder if anyone realised (I didn't) that it wasn't out and grabbed it. Augustus founds it. Exellent, it will be ours.

Mao founds Judaism in 1640BC.

I built a settler and founded Nottingham here.

I declare on Augustus and take Antium, the Buddhist Holy City.



After I see CoL will take 21 turns, I change my mind on The Oracle (it will take 10) and research is change to Masonry.

CoL has gone in 875BC, that's pretty early. Might have to delay Oracle to grab Theology.

OK, Where would I go from here?

Well Oracle hopefully is still in the cards to grab Theology. I'd try and finish off AC if possible or just end hostilities after some good old fashioned pillaging.

Libraries and cottages where possible as well.

Philosophy is still out there, can try a GS in London after Oracle.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/88650/Ozbenno_the_Un-cultured_BC-0875.CivWarlordsSave

 

[mice]

Lotsa different saves coming. That might be my new favorite. Axes and dead Romans.

Just out of interest Ozbenno, what was the reasoning behind the positioning of Nottingham?

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Hey, Cam, for some reason I can't open your save any longer. I just get an error message. What's up, doc? I have no problems with the other saves,..

 

[Ozbenno]

Just out of interest Ozbenno, what was the reasoning behind the positioning of Nottingham?

I'm still not entirely sure

Spoiler :

I wanted the horses site but Washington grabbed that one and the dyes won't be good until Iron Working, so with the cows, Nottingham seemed the next best choice. The gold NW of London can't be worked without stealing the pigs from London which was another site I thought about.