S.K. Ren
Prince
bhavv: But GLighthouse + Colossus is faster. You can get and build both faster than if you went Fishing straight to Currency...I think. Plus it doesn't take up a citizen.
Cultural Advice Sought
- Thread starter Tiber4321
- Start date
Its faster for getting the weakest great person sure, but it will slow down your aquisition of the others.
You should never prioritise GMs for a culture win, they are the least important thing you need. Popping them as a fourth GP however is fine, and you don't want to waste time with both GLH and COllosus for GM points, they won't help you at all for culture game.
Mausolleum gives you up to +400 gold every time you spawn GPs, its too much stronger, and you need to use and micromanage specialist slots if you ever want to pop multiple GPs.
There's no possible way of popping 4 GPs faster than balancing and timing wonder completions and using specialists for the +3 great person points each. Once you get the top right policy in freedom, you keep your specialist slots filled with as many points you can generate with each GP progress being equal.
Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis are too important for this, they keep you growing fast while generating lots if GP points.
You will get all the GM points you need from Mausolleum, Notre Dame, Big Ben, Pentagon and United Nations plus specialists, but GLH and Collosus will prevent you from getting your early great scientist and engineer points from faster completion of Temple of Artemis, Glib, Oracle, and more GE wonders.
Another good trick to eventually learn is using an identical number of GP points coming for each GP from your wonders. Great scientists have the least number of points available from wonders, and you can use an advanced tactic of building an equal number of points for other GPs from other wonders.
Once you get statue of liberty done, you should have 25+ pop in the capital and secularism and right side of freedom. You can then fill every specialist slot and run a proper maxed out specialist economy which can generate over 2000 BPT with Sejong and 4 cities, and the fastest possible GP production potential.
You should never prioritise GMs for a culture win, they are the least important thing you need. Popping them as a fourth GP however is fine, and you don't want to waste time with both GLH and COllosus for GM points, they won't help you at all for culture game.
Mausolleum gives you up to +400 gold every time you spawn GPs, its too much stronger, and you need to use and micromanage specialist slots if you ever want to pop multiple GPs.
There's no possible way of popping 4 GPs faster than balancing and timing wonder completions and using specialists for the +3 great person points each. Once you get the top right policy in freedom, you keep your specialist slots filled with as many points you can generate with each GP progress being equal.
Hanging Gardens and Temple of Artemis are too important for this, they keep you growing fast while generating lots if GP points.
You will get all the GM points you need from Mausolleum, Notre Dame, Big Ben, Pentagon and United Nations plus specialists, but GLH and Collosus will prevent you from getting your early great scientist and engineer points from faster completion of Temple of Artemis, Glib, Oracle, and more GE wonders.
Another good trick to eventually learn is using an identical number of GP points coming for each GP from your wonders. Great scientists have the least number of points available from wonders, and you can use an advanced tactic of building an equal number of points for other GPs from other wonders.
Once you get statue of liberty done, you should have 25+ pop in the capital and secularism and right side of freedom. You can then fill every specialist slot and run a proper maxed out specialist economy which can generate over 2000 BPT with Sejong and 4 cities, and the fastest possible GP production potential.
Consider the value of a settled GA is greater than any other culture generation mechanism (and doubled with the Freedom finisher) with few exceptions. Those exceptions can largely be ignored because the culture is not multiplied (i.e. happiness->culture from policies, or cultural CS). Or is something you also want ASAP in a cultural game (i.e. Hermitage).
As DaveMcW has said, every generated non-GA kills a GA. Even if you generate them at the same time, the cost of the next goes up so any savings are only marginal.
That said, using a GS to rush to a culture building tech may have value if you are able to build or rush them quickly. But consider the Freedom finisher, Sistine's and Hermitage each landmark will be giving 20+ culture per turn. The only things that probably will beat a landmark would be a GE to rush Sistine's or Hermitage (although the latter is pretty cheap and easily built at that stage in the game). So one GE per game seems to be optimal.
Above and beyond that, the most important thing in a cultural game is food. And to answer one of the OP questions, I make specialists as soon as I can afford to in every city. This generally starts at +8 food, but this also needs to balance with some good production or gold generation so is city dependent.
Also, for placement, mid-late game I'll drop one on a luxury as they generally are unworked being neither good production or good growth tiles (I'm working +4 food, and +3-4 production at that point, oh and of course the landmarks). And the trade value can be somewhat diminished.
Earlier, non-freshwater grassland gives the smallest disruption, but non-freshwater plain are essentially the same if 1:1 food/production. That could also include grassland or plain-resource tiles if they aren't something you'd work. That 2f/2p stone may go unused with 4f/g river farms and 3-4p mines, but 2/1 with +6 culture is better than 2/0 and 1/1. And at that last stage when building Utopia when you no longer care about culture you can just stomp the landmark if you need the true production.
I've heard talk of landmarking hills, but I am generally food focused so I wouldn't want to work a 2p tile, when a 2f would allow me to work a 3 or 4p tile with no change in growth.
As DaveMcW has said, every generated non-GA kills a GA. Even if you generate them at the same time, the cost of the next goes up so any savings are only marginal.
That said, using a GS to rush to a culture building tech may have value if you are able to build or rush them quickly. But consider the Freedom finisher, Sistine's and Hermitage each landmark will be giving 20+ culture per turn. The only things that probably will beat a landmark would be a GE to rush Sistine's or Hermitage (although the latter is pretty cheap and easily built at that stage in the game). So one GE per game seems to be optimal.
Above and beyond that, the most important thing in a cultural game is food. And to answer one of the OP questions, I make specialists as soon as I can afford to in every city. This generally starts at +8 food, but this also needs to balance with some good production or gold generation so is city dependent.
Also, for placement, mid-late game I'll drop one on a luxury as they generally are unworked being neither good production or good growth tiles (I'm working +4 food, and +3-4 production at that point, oh and of course the landmarks). And the trade value can be somewhat diminished.
Earlier, non-freshwater grassland gives the smallest disruption, but non-freshwater plain are essentially the same if 1:1 food/production. That could also include grassland or plain-resource tiles if they aren't something you'd work. That 2f/2p stone may go unused with 4f/g river farms and 3-4p mines, but 2/1 with +6 culture is better than 2/0 and 1/1. And at that last stage when building Utopia when you no longer care about culture you can just stomp the landmark if you need the true production.
I've heard talk of landmarking hills, but I am generally food focused so I wouldn't want to work a 2p tile, when a 2f would allow me to work a 3 or 4p tile with no change in growth.
budweiser
King of the Beers
@smirk - What are your thoughts on using GEs to spawn a wonder in a second and/or third/ fourth city instead of more landmarks in the cap? Will it not result in more than a base 6 culture pre freedom finisher? Consider that it can take half the game before you finish freedom.
In fact, in a culture game it is usually 3/4 of the game where you finish freedom, obviously the finisher speeds up the game quickly.
A few engineers can be good if you have 4 cities, though having 4 cities in itself doesn't seem optimal to me in most cases.
Ideally you have a wonder built in each city before or around getting Piety->Reformation, long before Freedom is begun. Which could be before you'd get a GE.
But also what wonders are you talking about? Stonehenge is base 6, and early but I'd build this in whatever city I will build Hermitage which is more than likely the capital. There are a slew of other +1 culture wonders I could build in another city. It would be great to get a coastal city for either Lighthouse or Colossus, and if the capital is not near a mountain but another city is Machu Picchu works. But usually my second city is building something useful like Chicken Itza or Hagia Sophia.
This is subjective to speed and map, I don't play longer or bigger than Standard. Difficulty complicates the wonders, but GAs and the base culture buildings are the core.
All the work prior to getting lots of GAs in your Hermitage city is just to cut time off the finish date, getting the multiplier effect working on many landmarks is the goal.
martinbc
Chieftain
I read in this thread that your landmarks should be within three tiles of the city centre to generate culture. I think that's not true. I removed a landmark (worked the tile) at my border (about 5 tiles away) and my culture / turn dropped by 6 in the next turn.
The landmark must be worked by a citizen to generate culture. So if it's outof the workable range of a city then it cannot be worked and does not generate culture.
Similar threads
