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Cultural benefits and wonders obsolescence

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ViterboKnight, Nov 13, 2006.

  1. ViterboKnight

    ViterboKnight Chieftain

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    There are some wonders which add a free improvement in every city. What does it happen when these wonders get obsolete? Do existing improvements remain, or do they disappear?

    Stonehenge and Monument both become obsolete with Calendar. What does it mean for Monument? It seems that cultural bonus still exists even when I discover Calendar.

    p.s.: I'm playing C4Warlords, v.2.08
     
  2. Tristan daCunha

    Tristan daCunha Pacifist Aggressive

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    One of my gripes with Stonehenge is the disappearance of your monuments with the discovery of Calendar. The monuments you build on your own will continue to produce culture, but if you have Stonehenge you can't build monuments on your own.... you get shafted for building the wonder. :(
     
  3. Bushface

    Bushface Chieftain

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    Many Wonders have an effect which disappears when a certain tech is discovered and the Wonder goes obsolete, but it is true that Stonehenge's effect is the only one which actually prevents the player from doing something. I suppose the idea is that, Stonehenge being an early Wonder, you won't have many cities for it to affect, and Monuments are a pretty weak improvement anyway. But if you really want them to be permanent, you could build them while at the same time building Stonehenge - unless, as is probably the case, you have more important things to build.
     
  4. jray

    jray Chieftain

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    I second the gripe. I usually go for cultural victories, and that +2 culture from the Monument (once it exists for 1000 years) can make a big difference. It's frustrating that if I complete Stonehenge before I can complete Monuments in all 3 of my planned legendary cities, then I am permanently denied that +2 culture in those cities. And it seems like whenever I delay Stonehenge to finish those Monuments, I lose it to another Civ.
     
  5. Codex

    Codex Chieftain

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    I'm swimming against the tide on this one, I see, but I'm not sorry to see a good reason to avoid building Stonehenge. It's such a cheap wonder that I always go for it as soon as I can, so I never build monuments. It's been a big stone crutch for me, and one that I'd sooner throw away.
     
  6. Elandal

    Elandal Chieftain

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    Considering that Calendar obsoletes Monument, and that Monument does nothing but provide culture, why do Monuments stand there providing culture when they're obsolete?
    Monument is I guess the only building in the game that continues providing all its benefits after being obsoleted :)
     
  7. CivDude86

    CivDude86 Chieftain

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    Because you force the people you capture to become tourist and visit all the statues of a 2000 years younger you.
     
  8. Honkoid

    Honkoid Honk of the hill

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    The monuments shouldn't be that important for a cultural victory. A monument will grant you a total of perhaps 800 culture points (400 turns x 2 points). I know, the game may last somewhat below 500 turns, but neither do you have your monuments from turn 1 in your cities nor do they produce 2 poinst/turn from the moment they are built.
    When you are about to finish your cultural victory you should be able to get at least 500 points per turn in your three legendary cities (I remember having had about 1.4K/turn in one city once), so the missing monument would only delay your victory by one, maybe two turns, possibly not a single turn.
     
  9. CivDude86

    CivDude86 Chieftain

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    But it becomes 7:culture: with Free Speech and 3 cathedrals.
     
  10. ChicagoCubs

    ChicagoCubs Chieftain

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    Sorry, but I view Stonehenge differently. I do not count on it for the long terms cultural effect. I use it for the short term cultural effect. After SH and establishing a few new cities, my borders are expanding nicely. By the time Calendar roles around, I have a solid cultural foundation for my cities.
     
  11. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    That's a good point--the couple of games where I have built Stonehenge, it was all about the short-term border expansion. Once I got my libraries and temples up though, it was really irrelevant to future planning. Overall, though, I tend to go for Conquest/Domination wins more often than the others.

    Then again, I've only gone for a culture victory once.
     
  12. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Wow, really? That actually sounds like a bug, the monuments sticking around at all after calendar. Is that a Warlords change? Are you sure it's intentional?
     
  13. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Nope, it isn't. You can have monuments the entire game so long as you build them. For example, castles go obsolete as well, but you still have the buildings in your cities.
     
  14. Nikis-Knight

    Nikis-Knight Chieftain

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    Well, sure, but the effect goes away when obsoleting, doesn't it? Or I thought so, at least, but last time I played vanilla, they were called obolesks, anyway. :/
     
  15. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    Nope...

    You still get, and always have gotten as I remember, the cultural bonus. And that's all a monument provides.
     

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