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Cultural defense - view discrepency?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by peapd, May 30, 2009.

  1. peapd

    peapd Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2008
    Messages:
    58
    I've always wondered about this:

    When bombarding a city to lower its cultural defense, the number indicated on the city icon (+35% or whatever) is different than what the log says I lowered it to with bombardment.

    The icon number is always lower than the number the log claims it is.

    I've attached a screenshot to show what i mean - I'm bombarding Lagash. The city icon says 25%, the log says 40%.

    Anyone know why? And which number is correct?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Siege bombards from the highest defense value which, in the case of your screenshhot is 100% from walls + a castle. The damage is spread proportionally across walls and culture defenses i.e. for walls with 50% and culture at 20% then 2/5 of siege reduction wil be taken by walls.
    What is happening in your pic is this combined with the fact that gunpowder units ignore walls so always show the culture value (or whats leftover in this case!) if you want to see the fort defense value simply select a pre gunpowder unit like a longbow.

    To answer your question 'Which is correct?' the answer is both!
    If you attacking with post-gunpowder units such as muskets, cavalry, cannons, tanks etc then the lower value is true, for units you can get before gunpowder like trebuchets, longbows, macemen and knights, the value in the log is true.
    In both cases the value shown is correct for the unit you are using.
     
  3. MadmanAtW

    MadmanAtW Knight

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    Location:
    San Leandro, CA
    Huh, I didn't realize the proportional damage thing. So if you had a 50% cultural defense (yes, I know you can't, this is just for illustration) and walls, they wouldn't actually improve your defense at all but they would make it take twice as long to bombard?
     
  4. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Location:
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    No both a wall 50%+culture 50% and a pure cultrue defense city hit 0% on the same turn.

    Both cities have walls and castles giving 100% fortification defense but obviously artillery ignore them (when attacking!) They also ignre the bombardment resistance given by walls. First pic shows the defense the artillery see before shelling.
    Spoiler :


    Second pic shows the damage done to the wall+castles fortifications after 1 shot.
    Spoiler :


    3rd pic shows the damage as seen by the artillery after the same 1 shot.
    Spoiler :


    You can see the difference in defense reductions easily, 7% for Tenochtitlan and 13% for Teothuacan. For Tenoch the culture made up 2/5 of the total defense, for Teot 4/5. 1/5 of the artillery's 16% reduction gives 3.2%. So for Tenot its 6.4% and Teot 12.8. What is actually shown is rounded up giving 7% and 13% respectively although the fractions do affect later bombardments so Tenot will be reduced by a total of 13% on the second round of shelling.

    both cities will take the same amount of time to reduce to zero which is 7 turns, so yes even advanced artillery take longer to bombard wall+castle cities to 0 ;)
    However in your example the 50% is the same from both. The proportional thing only applies if the walls are greater, the higher the culture defense of the city, the more damage it takes to the point of taking all of it when culture=fortifications.
     
  5. MadmanAtW

    MadmanAtW Knight

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    Right, I used 50/50 just to make it a case where aside from bombardment the walls weren't actually helping. :)
     

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