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Cultural Diversity
- Thread starter JFD
- Start date
Kesler
Master Kekkler
I agree with Tarcisiocm, that adds a lot more to Cultural Diversity. In terms of game play, both styles have their own interesting effects on the whole game. If they were all unlocked however, people would probably rush Science, because in a lot of cases if you're wining the tech race, you have a great advantage.
Personally, having the different groups unlock over time I think works better, to not only retain the feeling of progression, but to allow this rather unique idea for CD.
Edit: Man, future artists are hard to find. Is there anything in particular you are looking for? I noticed that you use Artist to represent not just painting, but the Arts in general. Did you want a futuristic artist that wasn't a painter? Something more technology driven?
Personally, having the different groups unlock over time I think works better, to not only retain the feeling of progression, but to allow this rather unique idea for CD.
Edit: Man, future artists are hard to find. Is there anything in particular you are looking for? I noticed that you use Artist to represent not just painting, but the Arts in general. Did you want a futuristic artist that wasn't a painter? Something more technology driven?
TPangolin
Just the worst person
Please use Spoiler tags! 
ldvhl
ніщо
- Joined
- May 15, 2013
- Messages
- 2,182
Please use Spoiler tags!
Done and done.
Hi JFD. Thanks for your wonderful mods.
Just noticed that when playing with the Soundtrack addon that Babylon is missing the opening narrator quote which usually plays while waiting for the map to load. Music is just heard instead over Babylon's opening. Not a huge deal but seems like something unintended.
Just noticed that when playing with the Soundtrack addon that Babylon is missing the opening narrator quote which usually plays while waiting for the map to load. Music is just heard instead over Babylon's opening. Not a huge deal but seems like something unintended.
zwei833
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,228
Hello JFD, I really want to help of this component. But first, I want to discuss some issues I concerned about.
1, the sclae of the unit graphics component?
Do you want to give special unit model to every unit for every culture like R.E.D or Enthic Diversity?
Or do you want just replace the models which are really improper? For example, the crossbowman model ingame looks like european, so we can keep it for Western, Central, Southern, Northern cultures, just add new crossbowman model for Bharata, Islamic...
I personally prefer the latter idea.
2, 'Era' issue?
Most of the cultrues in CulDiv. are divided by area, but some, like the 'Classical culture', represent the civilizations of certain era.
So, what is a medieval Knight of the Roman Empire mean? And what should it looks like? Is it suppose the Roman Empire is still survive in medieval era and the knight should dress in ancient rome style?
Or these knights represent the knights of the Duchy of Milian, Duchy of Tuscany, etc. in medieval era and they should dress like medieval Italian knights in real history?
3, no such unit in REAL history?
As the Civilization games means somewhat history re-written, some civ may build units that they never have in real history.
For example, the 'longsword' mean steel longsword in the game(as Longswordsman require Iron resource and unlock at the Steel tech). But IIRC, the Mesoamerican civs such as Aztec don't have any steel weapon because lack of irons in real history. So, should I give the longswordsman unit model of the Mesoamerican culture a Macuahuitl longsword or a steel longsword?
JFD
Kathigitarkh
I think some input from Jan would be good, but my thoughts are as follows:
1. Yes, I prefer the latter as well, although I would like to differentiate Northern and Eastern from Southern, Central, and Western (all of which can share the same vanilla graphics) - at least until Gunpowder units come into play, at which point a general uniformity can exist across all european cultures. Colonial and Totalitarian, similarly, borrow Western graphics (individual civs can have culture graphics different to their culture type).
2. I think a reimagining is best, as shown here. However, because these are culture based, I'd steer away from anything overtly identifiable (which is why I use the Greek Knight instead of the Roman Knight, as it seems more generic), so in many cases it might be best to use the Southern equivalent.
3. Presently, the Mesoamerican longswordsman exists here, which uses the Macuahuitl (I assume). So, I'd say a similar stance should be taken where possible, using a culturally appropriate equivalent even where that doesn't necessarily reflect the craftmanship of the unit's weapons.
In most cases, Ancient-Medieval units are covered. What is sorely missing and would be a great help, however, are Warriors and Scouts, for which I have nothing unique but the Western/Central (vanilla), Northern, Mandala (IIRC, Sukritact made this especially), Andean, and Mesoamerican. I wouldn't need one for each culture, however, as for instance a generic Oriental Warrior/Scout could work for Steppe as well, and a West African one could work for Bantu, a Mesopotamic one for Islamic (maybe also Bharata), etc. Perhaps Workers and Missionaries, too, but I don't want to get ahead of myself
1. Yes, I prefer the latter as well, although I would like to differentiate Northern and Eastern from Southern, Central, and Western (all of which can share the same vanilla graphics) - at least until Gunpowder units come into play, at which point a general uniformity can exist across all european cultures. Colonial and Totalitarian, similarly, borrow Western graphics (individual civs can have culture graphics different to their culture type).
2. I think a reimagining is best, as shown here. However, because these are culture based, I'd steer away from anything overtly identifiable (which is why I use the Greek Knight instead of the Roman Knight, as it seems more generic), so in many cases it might be best to use the Southern equivalent.
3. Presently, the Mesoamerican longswordsman exists here, which uses the Macuahuitl (I assume). So, I'd say a similar stance should be taken where possible, using a culturally appropriate equivalent even where that doesn't necessarily reflect the craftmanship of the unit's weapons.
In most cases, Ancient-Medieval units are covered. What is sorely missing and would be a great help, however, are Warriors and Scouts, for which I have nothing unique but the Western/Central (vanilla), Northern, Mandala (IIRC, Sukritact made this especially), Andean, and Mesoamerican. I wouldn't need one for each culture, however, as for instance a generic Oriental Warrior/Scout could work for Steppe as well, and a West African one could work for Bantu, a Mesopotamic one for Islamic (maybe also Bharata), etc. Perhaps Workers and Missionaries, too, but I don't want to get ahead of myself
janboruta
Artistriarch
EDIT: Assassin'd by JFD, but we pretty much said the same things. 
Pretty much this, but if it is possible, even units of Western, Central, Southern European groups could be different. Even helmets for that Crossbowman you mention could be different in each culture group and you get more diverse units very quickly.
You mentioned "scale" of units - I probably misunderstood, but no unit should be rescaled. Many UUs in mods have vanilla scale. It's more compatible with vanilla and Ethnic Units mod. Rescaling for R.E.D. is pretty much an unnecessary step.
"Classical" group is more of a "Mediterranean" group. Most of civs in this group were either Greek, Hellenic, or under Greek influence, so a generic Greek look would be best. It also means some alternative-history units, most likely, to make them distinct from the Southern (Italian) group. But if not possible, I guess they could share models with Southern group and related.
What you and I said here and above - it's entering alternative history, so you can come up with many creative ideas. Native swords for Native longswordsmen sounds really cool and will provide greater diversity in unit models.
Your help will be greatly appreciated with this mod component. I was supposed to prepare them a long time ago, but it's a big undertaking and I had other art to do.
Earlier I started gathering unit models for eras: Enlightenment, Industrial, Modern, Atomic (so both world wars) including line infantry, tanks, and planes. Ships are not that easy to come by so I'd leave them be for the time being. (many unique models are used for embarkation graphics anyway and modern era ships are generally pretty similar).
My plan so far was to take a model and reskin it to team-color as it that definitely takes less time than learning 3D editing from scratch. This will work well for machinery (tanks, airplanes), as it would be pretty difficult to come up with a compelling and not silly design for alternate history versions of them. So for example the Colonial group would use American tanks, Eastern group - Russian tanks, Central group - German tanks and so on. Similarly with line infantry and industrial riflemen models, reskinned to a more generic look (so no national insignia, basic or no camouflage etc.). I still think I could cover those later eras, due to the fact that many models are already available.
Pretty much this, but if it is possible, even units of Western, Central, Southern European groups could be different. Even helmets for that Crossbowman you mention could be different in each culture group and you get more diverse units very quickly.
You mentioned "scale" of units - I probably misunderstood, but no unit should be rescaled. Many UUs in mods have vanilla scale. It's more compatible with vanilla and Ethnic Units mod. Rescaling for R.E.D. is pretty much an unnecessary step.
"Classical" group is more of a "Mediterranean" group. Most of civs in this group were either Greek, Hellenic, or under Greek influence, so a generic Greek look would be best. It also means some alternative-history units, most likely, to make them distinct from the Southern (Italian) group. But if not possible, I guess they could share models with Southern group and related.
What you and I said here and above - it's entering alternative history, so you can come up with many creative ideas. Native swords for Native longswordsmen sounds really cool and will provide greater diversity in unit models.
Your help will be greatly appreciated with this mod component. I was supposed to prepare them a long time ago, but it's a big undertaking and I had other art to do.
Earlier I started gathering unit models for eras: Enlightenment, Industrial, Modern, Atomic (so both world wars) including line infantry, tanks, and planes. Ships are not that easy to come by so I'd leave them be for the time being. (many unique models are used for embarkation graphics anyway and modern era ships are generally pretty similar).
My plan so far was to take a model and reskin it to team-color as it that definitely takes less time than learning 3D editing from scratch. This will work well for machinery (tanks, airplanes), as it would be pretty difficult to come up with a compelling and not silly design for alternate history versions of them. So for example the Colonial group would use American tanks, Eastern group - Russian tanks, Central group - German tanks and so on. Similarly with line infantry and industrial riflemen models, reskinned to a more generic look (so no national insignia, basic or no camouflage etc.). I still think I could cover those later eras, due to the fact that many models are already available.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
I think he meant the scale, or scope, of the project - as in how extensive I wanted to make the diversification - rather than of the units themselves. Needless to say, I won't be touching unit scale.
zwei833
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 1,228
In most cases, Ancient-Medieval units are covered. What is sorely missing and would be a great help, however, are Warriors and Scouts, for which I have nothing unique but the Western/Central (vanilla), Northern, Mandala (IIRC, Sukritact made this especially), Andean, and Mesoamerican. I wouldn't need one for each culture, however, as for instance a generic Oriental Warrior/Scout could work for Steppe as well, and a West African one could work for Bantu, a Mesopotamic one for Islamic (maybe also Bharata), etc. Perhaps Workers and Missionaries, too, but I don't want to get ahead of myself
JFd and Janboruta, do you have a copy of Civ4: BTS? If you have, I strongly recommend you to download the Realism Invictus mod(http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=24605 ). Huge amount of high quality historical unit models over the world in that mod. You may find something you interested in and ask us to convert it to Civ5.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Alright, I'll take a look. Thanks.
Done (for Warrior and Scouts at this stage).
Done (for Warrior and Scouts at this stage).
TPangolin
Just the worst person
Bring on the Sahul units!!
Divine Yuri
Never Closes Chrome
Just going to throw some colonial Pictures out there :
Priesthood :
Commoners (Warning they got a absurd Resolution reduced their size, but gave original as link) :
Also have a few I could scan myself, but going to need to check out what else I have as they're mostly in storage :
What I KNOW I have :
There is probably some more I have, but I have to look first.
Priesthood :
Spoiler :
Commoners (
Spoiler :
Also have a few I could scan myself, but going to need to check out what else I have as they're mostly in storage :
What I KNOW I have :
- Painting of Henry Ford talking to someone (can't remember the other guys name, and it's not here so can't check who it was.).
- Also a few Late-1800s -> Mid-1900s pictures of Miners, and Lumber Workers.
There is probably some more I have, but I have to look first.
janboruta
Artistriarch
I guess it would be best to stick to paintings or digital artwork in color. Photographs in black and white are likely to stick out like a sore thumb.
SamuraiOutcast
Grand Duke
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2014
- Messages
- 148
JFD would it be possible to implement different Cultural Victory Artworks for the different Culture Types?
I feel like it'd look nice alongside the social policy overhaul.
I feel like it'd look nice alongside the social policy overhaul.
JFD
Kathigitarkh
Yes, definitely. Someone was collecting art for just that purpose, and I was awaiting that. So I hope they haven't disappeared completely...
Thanks for the help, but as Jan says, coloured pictures are needed, as well as portraits that are more personal in nature (so no buildings by themselves). I'd also like to avoid any explicit religious iconography. I've got most of them now, however.
Just going to throw some colonial Pictures out there :
Priesthood :
Spoiler :
Commoners (Warning they got a absurd Resolutionreduced their size, but gave original as link) :
Spoiler :
Also have a few I could scan myself, but going to need to check out what else I have as they're mostly in storage :
What I KNOW I have :
- Painting of Henry Ford talking to someone (can't remember the other guys name, and it's not here so can't check who it was.).
- Also a few Late-1800s -> Mid-1900s pictures of Miners, and Lumber Workers.
There is probably some more I have, but I have to look first.
Thanks for the help, but as Jan says, coloured pictures are needed, as well as portraits that are more personal in nature (so no buildings by themselves). I'd also like to avoid any explicit religious iconography. I've got most of them now, however.
sss64sss
Warlord
I noticed in the announcement that you mentioned you're not adding any-more culture types. Does that mean the Britain sub-group is scrapped? Or is that one still in the cards?
Also, I tried finding some images for any Tribal-American Sub-Groups. Like I said, my knowledge is a bit rusty, but it's better than nothing:
Woodland Medieval:
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...hash/aa/fa/Nokose-Nacoochee.jpg?itok=F9ox3hR8
Woodland Enlightenment (Yes, I know it's from a video-game, but I assumed it could be fixed using photoshop or something):
http://www.wallpaperup.com/391318/A...n_strategy_age_empires_real-time_western.html
Not sure, but could work for Woodland maybe:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Choctaw_Village_by_Francois_Bernard.jpg
Maybe Woodland or PNW Future(?):
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/df/04/64/df04640cf8b421e66090b4ce268fc511.jpg
Maybe Plains or some other future(?):
http://orig11.deviantart.net/6513/f/2009/287/5/8/native_american_alien_by_bhippy.jpg
Classical (For southwest maybe?):
http://d1jrw5jterzxwu.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/uploads/2012/05/cahokia-mural1.jpeg
Classical PNW (A bit too simple maybe):
http://www.hampshireantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/001.jpg
A bit too small, but I might as well mention this for PNW:
http://www.watertown.k12.ma.us/cunn..._America/02_The_Chinooks/Chinook_Village2.jpg
Plains Classical:
http://questgarden.com/126/86/2/110521151148/images/comvil.jpg
http://www.indiani.cz/articles/upload/clanky-zbrane/luky-sipy/2.jpg
Plains Medieval(?):
http://s821.photobucket.com/user/Ojibwa/media/Fort Benton/Bodmer/DSCN9602_zps8c10df20.jpg.html
Some misc ones:
https://socialevolutionforum.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/img_1977_1_1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/enJkoig.jpg
https://endgame-media-prod.storage.googleapis.com/uploads/cahokiancity.jpg
http://castle.eiu.edu/~wow/classes/sp05/cccoanoes.jpg
All I got for now. Most of them probably aren't at a good size, but I figured I should mention them anyway.
Also, I tried finding some images for any Tribal-American Sub-Groups. Like I said, my knowledge is a bit rusty, but it's better than nothing:
Woodland Medieval:
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/de...hash/aa/fa/Nokose-Nacoochee.jpg?itok=F9ox3hR8
Woodland Enlightenment (Yes, I know it's from a video-game, but I assumed it could be fixed using photoshop or something):
http://www.wallpaperup.com/391318/A...n_strategy_age_empires_real-time_western.html
Not sure, but could work for Woodland maybe:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Choctaw_Village_by_Francois_Bernard.jpg
Maybe Woodland or PNW Future(?):
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/df/04/64/df04640cf8b421e66090b4ce268fc511.jpg
Maybe Plains or some other future(?):
http://orig11.deviantart.net/6513/f/2009/287/5/8/native_american_alien_by_bhippy.jpg
Classical (For southwest maybe?):
http://d1jrw5jterzxwu.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/uploads/2012/05/cahokia-mural1.jpeg
Classical PNW (A bit too simple maybe):
http://www.hampshireantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/001.jpg
A bit too small, but I might as well mention this for PNW:
http://www.watertown.k12.ma.us/cunn..._America/02_The_Chinooks/Chinook_Village2.jpg
Plains Classical:
http://questgarden.com/126/86/2/110521151148/images/comvil.jpg
http://www.indiani.cz/articles/upload/clanky-zbrane/luky-sipy/2.jpg
Plains Medieval(?):
http://s821.photobucket.com/user/Ojibwa/media/Fort Benton/Bodmer/DSCN9602_zps8c10df20.jpg.html
Some misc ones:
https://socialevolutionforum.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/img_1977_1_1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/enJkoig.jpg
https://endgame-media-prod.storage.googleapis.com/uploads/cahokiancity.jpg
http://castle.eiu.edu/~wow/classes/sp05/cccoanoes.jpg
All I got for now. Most of them probably aren't at a good size, but I figured I should mention them anyway.
The TA split could look somthing like this:
Woodlands (free furs, but no trapping) (uses orenda/midewinwin icon from HR)
South East (needs better name) (Something to do with trade/Free caravan?/Free trade slot?) (IDK for icon/something like a mound?/Southern Cult icon from HR?)
Plains (gets regular bison bonus+ something else?) (Uses tipi as icon/Wakan Tanka icon from HR)
North East (free monument I think should be good) (needs better name) (Uses Sgaanaang icon from HR (Chinook/Haida religion))
South West (Free stone/Free stone works?/free pottery would be great, but it is taken) (needs better name) (I really don't know for this icon/some sort of pottery?)
Woodlands (free furs, but no trapping) (uses orenda/midewinwin icon from HR)
South East (needs better name) (Something to do with trade/Free caravan?/Free trade slot?) (IDK for icon/something like a mound?/Southern Cult icon from HR?)
Plains (gets regular bison bonus+ something else?) (Uses tipi as icon/Wakan Tanka icon from HR)
North East (free monument I think should be good) (needs better name) (Uses Sgaanaang icon from HR (Chinook/Haida religion))
South West (Free stone/Free stone works?/free pottery would be great, but it is taken) (needs better name) (I really don't know for this icon/some sort of pottery?)