Cultural Domination

Nice job, Foxy. That next city of ours, the settler in place, is a bit hard to place. If it settles on the current location, it will be a stronger city, with rice and horses, but one south puts a lot more pressure on Kyoto eventually. I does waste a forest though, one that we wanted to chop for the Oracle. Hard decision there.

About settling there in the south, I don't know if we're ready for that. We definately want a settler down there sometime, if we can, but can we really afford it now? Our economy is historically terrible. Should we take steps to improve economy, or don't we care?

At least let us settle just west of Osaka first, I think.
 
Furthermore, we need cottages en masse at Dehli.
And checking the save, Damn! We are blocked of from a LOT of land down south. If we wanna make this, we'll have to find away to force our culture down on the southern part of the Pangea. This is sure hard:)
 
Yeah there is a ton of tundra down there, I only have two ideas for settling/flipping down there

1. Just spam settlers and settle all that tundra ourselves

2. Build a couple of settlers and rush buy cultural buildings down there to flip, since the AI will have the same pop./production problems in the tundra that we will, but will be unlikely to drop tons of money into building cultural buildings there.
 
this is a sign up! Sounds like a great idea. I would suggest a low difficulty setting (noble or 1 below). I think we have to expand like crazy, get cities into his civ and then pump the culture like nobodies business.

Edit: Rats. Double Rats. I hate missing a fun game like this. I am going to play a single player version of this.
 
Got it, but can't play today. Will be able to tomorrow afternoon around this time though.

As far as where to settle next - we're talking about the difference between putting pressure on Kyoto at 500 culture vs. at 5000. (The numbers are for normal speed, I forget what they'd be at Epic, but it's the same point.) And if we want ANY chance of flipping Kyoto we're going to want to start pressuring the center tile as soon as we can - we're already doing this with the Mongols. Also, I don't see how we could possibly chop that forest for Oracle if we settle where the settler is now anyway, considering that the hammers would go to the new city rather than the Oracle city.
 
You are absolutely right. Our people can cope without rice or horses.

@Ruff. Sorry you missed it. You are welcome to drop in your suggestions though! You wanna be an alternate?
 
@munter ... alternate = YES PLS!
 
what does an alternate do? Well, when one of your regular players decides that they actually hate you, the game or this SG and (basically) run away ... then you call in your first alternate to take his/her place.
 
The horses we don't really need anyway, Always Peace, remember? As far as the Rice goes, we'll get it eventually on expansion of borders, and I thought we were also going to plant one near the bananas, which would get good use of the Rice as well. That site would have a ton of food, and could make a good artist farm.

I think we should hard-research CoL, and use Oracle for Theology. We're going to need Courthouses ASAP, and Oracle may take too long. Conversely, I doubt the AIs will put up much of a fight for it.
 
ChrTh said:
The only city that can't flip is the Civ's last city, if I understand the mechanics correctly.
I know this was from ages ago ... but you can flip the civ's last city ... see here (and yes, this was a while ago under "I don't know which patch").
 
Xerol said:
The horses we don't really need anyway, Always Peace, remember? As far as the Rice goes, we'll get it eventually on expansion of borders, and I thought we were also going to plant one near the bananas, which would get good use of the Rice as well. That site would have a ton of food, and could make a good artist farm.

I think we should hard-research CoL, and use Oracle for Theology. We're going to need Courthouses ASAP, and Oracle may take too long. Conversely, I doubt the AIs will put up much of a fight for it.

If we can pull of a Philosophy Slingshot, that would be great too.
 
That might be a lot harder to do - the more we expand, the harder it'll be to keep science up (we definitely need to get more workers and get cottages rolling) and we could end up losing horribly, especially considering we need to get to Music for the free artist ASAP too. That might be a gamebreaker, as we could probably flip at least a city with the artist, and give us a foothold into a region we wouldn't otherwise be able to settle.
 
I thought you ment that we should Hard-research COL and use the Oracle for Theology, since COL was more important. From that I gathered that the Oracle would complete after COL. If so, Philosophy would be a better choice I think, mainly because it's more expensive, and good trading material when we get the alphabet. ( I think I mentioned earlier that pacifism would be a good civic for us, but since we won't adopt a state religion anytime soon, none of the religious civics will do much for us until free religion. Mercantilism, representation and Caste System on the other hand......;))

Due to our slow research, I think the best thing to do is to research alphabet next and use the Oracle for COL. Then trade for the cheap but important techs we lack.
 
Ok, that makes sense. I forgot what the prereq's were for Philosophy, so I didn't think we'd be able to get there in time, but all we need is CoL. I was thinking Theology for Sistine's, mostly, as this way we can run "half-artists" prior to caste system in some cities (I think getting Libraries up and running some scientists in high-food cities would help immensely in keeping up the research pace).

As far as trading goes, I'd rather not trade away Alphabet so soon - the longer we hold a monopoly on it, the longer it'll take the AIs to catch up, and the longer we're ahead of them, the more likely it is we'll grab religions. We should try to find a good site to build the GL, and use it to pop a scientist who can research Philosophy for us. However, if we do use Oracle for Philosophy, we should trade Alphabet but not Monotheism or any of the other Theology prereqs.
(Theoretically, with Philosophy out of the way, we could go Drama -> Literature -> Music -> CS -> Paper -> Education -> Liberalism and just TRADE for everything else, and then use a Prophet (we'll get at least one from 'henge) for Divine Right. Actually, I don't know where the GPP situation is right now, but we could probably pop a Prophet in time to get Theology.)

So yeah, Philosophy is lookin' good. Cash ain't so great, but hopefully with Courthouses we'll be better off. I'm heading home now, and might be able to play when I get home, assuming I don't have more work to do.
 
What you say is sound, only thing I'm worried about is losing Oracle before discovering COL. We produce so few beakers it's embarrasing.
 
Munterpipe said:
If we can pull of a Philosophy Slingshot, that would be great too.
lurker's comment: Once you have Mathematics and Code of Laws, you can use a Great Scientist to lightbulb Philosophy. You just need to build a Library and hire a couple of scientists.


Edit: Oops. Xerol already knew that. :blush: Nevermind.
 
Snag the remaining religions, minus Islam, the beeline to Music using Scientist Specialist to get there if we have to, then pumping the culture slider while cottaging everything is site (only picking up Drama). This will deny us universities, but will allow for everything else and most importantly cathedrals. We may want to go as far as Free Speech civic though. In the mean time pump settlers now! That is sort of the way that I see it. Anyone with ideas/thoughts?
 
Turn 0 (Inherited): I MM Delhi to work the wines instead of a floodplain - it delays our settler by one turn, but increases our research by a beaker, which we DESPERATELY needed - we were getting 8 beakers/turn, now we're getting 9. I want to start getting cottages up before the end of my turnset, and without that move it would've been 6 for agriculture and another 14 for pottery - now it's 5 for agriculture and I didn't check what pottery was, probably 12. I also moved the waiting settler 1S.

Turn 1: Yeeeeeehaw, this is about the luckiest pop I've ever had. The best-timed one, at least:


That's right, gems on a mine we were working. That's 6 extra commerce, and I should be able to bump the tech slider back to 80% at no loss....yep. In one turn we went from 8 beakers/6 commerce to 15 beakers/6 commerce. Just about doubled research.

Er...not for long. Settle the new city, maintenance kicks in and we're back to 60% at no loss, bringing in 12 beakers now. Still a lot better than before, though, and without those gems we'd actually be getting less beakers. Move a worker to road the floodplains that we'll eventually cottage - I'm going to be coming back here as soon as pottery is in, and I want to immediately begin work.

The other worker I move to the forest between our two cities in the southeast. I check the chop button, the hammers will go to the Oracle city. It'll grow in time for the chop to get the full effect.

Washington's been busy:

That guy's trapped until someone's borders pop.

Turn 2:
Zzz...

Turn 3:
Bombay completes Fast Worker, start on Jewish Monestary - we're going to want multiple religions in our established cities soon enough, plus eventually get a shrine, and Khan has converted to Judaism already, so it seems like a good choice as far as one to spread. Plus, it's 2 CPT vs. the 1 that comes from a Temple, we don't really need happiness (c'mon, it's size 2) and only costs 50% more hammers. It's 30 turns to go, but a chop should speed that up, which I send the new Worker out on.

IBT: Lizzy offers OB. I decline for now, we don't really need religion spreading down that far from our influence just yet, and the last thing we need is an English settler penetrating our blockade.

Agriculture completes, begin pottery, due in 8.

Turn 4:
Zzz...

Turn 5:
I MM Madras (Oracle City) to become stagnant - at best, it'd be another 18 turns before growth, and that's at 1 hammer/turn. Compare that to the "max hammers" option which brings in Oracle in 31 turns, not including the chop which is due soon. CoL is looking doubtful to get before Oracle completes, but then again we can always hold back on the hammers, and we're also getting cottages in 8 turns.

Turn 6:
Chop completes; 23 turns to Oracle, 6 to Pottery. I re-MM the city to grow slowly but produce an extra commerce. Oracle in 45 now, pottery still in 6, but there'll be more Overflow. It's probably possible to time CoL to finish perfectly in sync with the Oracle.

The Mongols have a new city. I'm planning on settling the X, but delaying it as long as possible (i.e., moving him down there, but not pushing the button to settle until I see another settler moving around). This location gives us extra pressure on Japan (eventually), puts us in position to grab the Ivory (commerce) and also lets us pressure that new Mongol city soon. The alternative site is one due West on the other side of the river, which grabs Gold from the mongols, but has no food resource. Either way, the choice will probably be up to the next player.



Turn 7:

AGH. I accidentally hit "backspace" and lost 10 turns of writeup. ****. Well, I still have the screenshots:

http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=211
http://h.xerol.org/i.php?i=212

I'm on turn 18 now. Trade route is complete, cottages are being built, we're down to 29 turns on CoL at 60%, and can still toggle between 60-70.

I think that's 20, I lost count when my post got cleared. We've made some significant gains commerce-wise, and with a traderoute between Delhi and Bombay a few turns from completing, cottages being built, and borders popping everywhere, we're in good shape for the Philosophy slingshot.



There is a settler in the south between X and Y, those are the best sites for attacking culturally, but there's also the option of settling where he is now - it's less direct and more of a territory claim, but being on the river means it'll pay for its maintenance costs sooner. I didn't want to settle him yet because it means we'd have to drop science and delay CoL even more.

Here's the save:
Culturemongers BC-0565.Civ4SavedGame
 
I think I need to re-emphasise the importance of commerce in this game. Research aside, we're going to want a lot of well-developed cottages in our border cities by the time we get Drama, because I can easily see us running at least 20% culture from that point to the end of the game. Our second border pops are the important ones, considering that both of our eastern cities will begin attacking city tiles when they reach 150 culture.

Tech-wise, we need to finish CoL, use Oracle for Philosophy, and the Prophet that'll come out of Bombay in about 30 turns for Theology. After CoL finishes researching, we should get Alphabet and backtrade for Iron Working - we have two resources near Bombay (gems and pigs) that are unworkable right now due to Jungle, plus Iron is a good hammer tile.

Washington is expanding too fast.

We might want to consider settling south of the river to the west of Bombay; this is a good coastal site (commerce) plus we can build coastal wonders there (Colossus comes to mind - a merchant would really help us in the long run).
 
Top Bottom