Initially I thought I was going to get it MUCH sooner, but I screwed up. I could easily do this on Immortal or Deity as well, which I will try next time. This was done on Standard game speed just to see if the strategy works. This is a lot harder to do than it looks, as most of the great cultural buildings happen much much later. The Cristo Rendentor is absolutely necessary. I didn't get the Oracle, or the other wonder that grants a free policy, which greatly slowed me down.
Cultural Victory - 1838 - Emperor - France
- Thread starter Celevin
- Start date
Wow.
A cultural victory with so many cities ?
With only 7 cities in emperor / standard I won a cultural victory in 2030 and while getting the opera house, cristo redemptor and all. If I remember well, at the end I would have to reach 7500 culture per policy and was doing 690 culture per turn.
I don't get with twice as many cities as me how you got your last policy with only 4K culture and I had all civics that reduce it too.
Or is it that puppetted cities do not increase by 30% the policy cap ?
If so I struggled for nothing as I was refraining to eat my concurrents and ended up clicking a very boring 300 next turn with nothing happenning but golden ages triggered by 90 happinesss.
A cultural victory with so many cities ?
With only 7 cities in emperor / standard I won a cultural victory in 2030 and while getting the opera house, cristo redemptor and all. If I remember well, at the end I would have to reach 7500 culture per policy and was doing 690 culture per turn.
I don't get with twice as many cities as me how you got your last policy with only 4K culture and I had all civics that reduce it too.
Or is it that puppetted cities do not increase by 30% the policy cap ?
If so I struggled for nothing as I was refraining to eat my concurrents and ended up clicking a very boring 300 next turn with nothing happenning but golden ages triggered by 90 happinesss.
Are you referring to the fact that if you wait to unlock Freedom and immediately go after the reduced policy cost for your first few policies it will reduce the cost of all future policies that you've saved up for? This definitely speeds up a cultural victory.
Now I'm curious. If it's not just puppets for culture buildings, I'd guess it has to be gold related?
I got my first cultural win Sat on King with Askia in 1890. Nothing too wild. Settled 3 (with a wonder in each) and puppeted 3 very nice cities. Think I went for the +20% wonder policy, saved for freedom that I semibeelined with acoustics, a few from patronage, few piety, then saved up to buy like 8 policies at once once I had the Cristo Redentor. I purposely skipped Stoenhenge, could've gotten it, but wanted to see how fast I could go if I were beaten to it. Did build the Oracle. I think my culture at end game was only a moderate +560/turn, but I'd been running with 3-4 allied cultural city states all game, so it added up.
I got my first cultural win Sat on King with Askia in 1890. Nothing too wild. Settled 3 (with a wonder in each) and puppeted 3 very nice cities. Think I went for the +20% wonder policy, saved for freedom that I semibeelined with acoustics, a few from patronage, few piety, then saved up to buy like 8 policies at once once I had the Cristo Redentor. I purposely skipped Stoenhenge, could've gotten it, but wanted to see how fast I could go if I were beaten to it. Did build the Oracle. I think my culture at end game was only a moderate +560/turn, but I'd been running with 3-4 allied cultural city states all game, so it added up.
As it is, I'm hoping your forthcoming strat will greatly reduce the time cultural takes. Or at least remove the near requirement for city states. I could've had a diplo win at least 30 turns faster than my culture win without any change in strat. There's little point to a victory condition if fulfilling it takes like 90% the same requirements as another method, but is slower.
Cultural city states help out a lot with the victory condition. I think 1/4 of my culture was coming from them, 1/4 from my capitol, and 1/2 from the rest of my empire.
The way city states are set up you can see how a smaller civ favours Cultural city states, and a large civ would favour Maritime city states. Unfortunately puppets break that dynamic entirely, making both Cultural and Maritime city states both very very worthwhile to a big civ.
The way city states are set up you can see how a smaller civ favours Cultural city states, and a large civ would favour Maritime city states. Unfortunately puppets break that dynamic entirely, making both Cultural and Maritime city states both very very worthwhile to a big civ.
alpaca
King of Ungulates
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2006
- Messages
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Annex and raze them before choosing SPs? But I guess you could do that if you annex. Looks nice so far, the only time I tried a cultural win yet was for Bollywood and it took me into the 2000s (on Emperor, standard pangaea).
I didn't annex, raze, or sell a single city. I'm completely away from that strategy since puppets don't add to social policy costs.
Lemme just say this: The maintenance costs in my puppets were actually really efficient for what they brought in, and it has nothing to do with my tile improvements.
Lemme just say this: The maintenance costs in my puppets were actually really efficient for what they brought in, and it has nothing to do with my tile improvements.
Nope, no loopholes, but you're close. Here it is:
I didn't research Bronze Working until after the Industrial era. Currency also waited a LONG LONG time. The only buildings my puppets built for the first half of the game were cultural, and happiness related.
I didn't research Bronze Working until after the Industrial era. Currency also waited a LONG LONG time. The only buildings my puppets built for the first half of the game were cultural, and happiness related.
That sounds a bit cheaty to me. The entire puppet dynamic doesn't strike me a being all that well thought out, especially because people are devising all manner of ways to control the production, when the core concept of the puppet state is that you shouldn't be able to control it.
To be honest, it seems kinda broken right now.
To be honest, it seems kinda broken right now.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Reading this thread, I was pretty sure that's what you must have meant. Basically puppets will build whatever they feel like... so just don't research the tech that makes them build useless things.
Yep, I had no barracks/military academies.
It's not cheaty. What's cheaty is having to get around a system where you can't control your cities at all. Puppets are the lamest part of Civ5, and also the strongest.
Puppets make you not want to research certain techs. Puppets make the Piety tree worthless (which I mistakenly grabbed). Puppets go away from the entire goal of the game to make it fun, accessible, and have you in control. They are the new "random event", but 10x worse. I don't mind gaming puppets, because they have to be.
If your puppet decides to build a barracks instead of a monument, they just knocked your civilization down a peg. It's random, and it's lame.
It's not cheaty. What's cheaty is having to get around a system where you can't control your cities at all. Puppets are the lamest part of Civ5, and also the strongest.
Puppets make you not want to research certain techs. Puppets make the Piety tree worthless (which I mistakenly grabbed). Puppets go away from the entire goal of the game to make it fun, accessible, and have you in control. They are the new "random event", but 10x worse. I don't mind gaming puppets, because they have to be.
If your puppet decides to build a barracks instead of a monument, they just knocked your civilization down a peg. It's random, and it's lame.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
A bit cheaty? I don't see it any more cheaty then bee-lining a tech, or worse yet, slingshotting one.
I do agree that puppets don't seem well thought out. I think the real problem is that they don't really cost you ANYthing. The difference in production of empire without puppet vs empire with is ultimately always in favor of the empire with.
There isn't war weariness or even 'puppet unhappiness' to deal with.
Hmm, while not having the tech for pointless military buildings would save maintenance, how does that help you win cultural much faster? Maybe it's just cause I inherently usually delay the lower tech tree already, but my puppets always seem cash positive for a loooong time. More cash positive would be even better, but my limit on taking them is always lack of military advantage or interest, not gold.
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