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cultural victory and Renaissance bottleneck

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by ventrue2, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. ventrue2

    ventrue2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
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    Been trying out mostly cultural VCs. Currently playing on emperor.

    I've noticed I trend to pop a lot of available wonders in the early renaissance. Sistine, globe theater, Pisa, Uffizi, etc. How do you prioritize these wonders? I trend to tech education, acoustics, printing, thought architecture. This opens up a lot of wonders. Do you built some in satellite city? Pisa seems to be best here as I want the great work wonders in the capital.

    Also, I tend to miss airports and just shoot up the top of the tree. Should I grab it at some point,iirc I need to grab three techs to get it.
     
  2. Deau

    Deau Emperor

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    Tech path and how early you've achieved tech parity/how big a tech lead you've achieved dictates priority.

    I typically let go off Globe Theater since you can't spam endless GW like you can spam artifacts with archeology. Sistine is usually easy to hard build esp if you hit renaissance via acoustics so the competition really comes down to Pisa>Louvre>Uffizi is my preferred order. Pisa's passive should help reach the Internet "at least one GS earlier" or at worse around the same time if you chose a GE for Uffizi or louvre. Whichever way you chose to use it still makes it a very strong wonder. With worse starts though it is often wiser to skip the bottom of the tree to ensure you can reach Uffizi/Louvre earlier.

    Also, I tend to favor PT over Uffizi when I'm doing fine on wonder building/FPT as, again, earlier turn to the internet means less culture to catch up to and tends to convert to better turn-to-victory than a good TPT wonder.

    Luckily, almost all AIs let go off rationalism and PT can be delayed. I don't think I've seen any AI besides China build it on Deity yet
     
  3. niftymbm

    niftymbm Chieftain

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    You might want to start teching towards airports just so you can be closer techwise to computers. No point going all the way to the Internet if some bum on some other continent builds the Great Firewall.
     
  4. glory7

    glory7 King

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    i have no idea what's the problem with great firewall - I believe that it only blocks spies, not your tourism.

    Beeline to internet. period. internet and national hotel (visitor agency?) from telecommunication is key.
     
  5. niftymbm

    niftymbm Chieftain

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    Blocks out the internet bonus from other civs' tourism. srsly.
     
  6. Deau

    Deau Emperor

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    This.

    But most CV games, at least on deity, end within 10-15 turns of The Internet (however long needed to move your GMs to the appropriate runaway territory) so it is generally a non-issue.
     
  7. glory7

    glory7 King

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    oh, didn't know that - good to know new fact.

    But that does not mean that beeline to internet is not optimal. It's only one civ even if somebody builds it. Moreover, getting national hotel (real name is something like visitor center) is really important and it comes from telecommunication, which is right before internet anyway.

    And if you play correctly, you get internet much faster than that happens and your 3-4 GM bomb just ends the game. I won lots of deity culture games and frankly speaking haven't felt at once that great firecrap could be a problem. Actually, I am pretty sure that you can usually win before somebody builds that. To the best of my memory I don't even remember anyone builds it before I win with CV.
     
  8. Tich

    Tich Prince

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    When are you Diety wins happening when you go for CVs? Just asking out of curiosity mainly. My SVs come pre-turn 270 so that's the baseline that I've been using so far.
     
  9. glory7

    glory7 King

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    with good starts, sub 270 CV is fairly easy and I think I did sub 250 too (haven't checked the file right now but I am pretty sure).

    SV is usually faster and more reliable - with good starts, sub 250 SV is fairly easy and sub 230 is very managable if you got strong civ too. one example is the recent one (Moriarte's file)- I guess you are going to play it so I won't talk about the result here.
     
  10. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Yeah, I just found out the hard way about Firewall. I, too, thought it was just spy stuff. If I had known, I would've blocked it but as it turns out, it will cost me a cultural victory that I had been working so long on.
     
  11. Deau

    Deau Emperor

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    I tend to aim for pre 275 with culture although it requires a better start than science to achieve but it is definitely not that far off from SV timeliness.

    Usually, with the Internet pre 275 with a 600 ish TPT empire wide and ~2500 or 5k faith with 1-2 GMs from guild (4 total usually seals the deal), you will manage to win pre T300 on most maps with GM travel time being the main slowing factor. The real issue with CV is that if you haven't already won by T300, it's probably because one of the AI is producing massive CPT and if your GM faith cost is already up to 4k and you can only produce one GM per 25-30 turns, you simply won't catch up. I mean all in all, for a civ to be producing 500-600 CPT, it needs to have spammed wonders (thus leaving fewer for you).

    However, based on recent play throughs, a 400-500 TPT (which is fairly limited) with a T225-T240 the Internet (still with 3-4 GMs) will be done by T250-T260. Aka, science matters THAT MUCH for CV. Arguably more than for SV itself because the longer it takes for your TPT to pass the enemy ais CPT, the larger de deficit you have to overcome whereas science has a guaranteed end point in however many beakers you need to achieve all necessary techs.
     
  12. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    You speak the truth. It seems that every standard game, you will get 1-2 wonder spammers and that's hard to compete with them.
     

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