[BNW] Cultural Victory and Tourism (BNW)

[Carlsguides]

Carlsguides submitted a new resource:

Cultural Victory and Tourism - Cultural Victory and Tourism

Cultural Victory and Tourism
Link to the original article from Carl's Civ 5 Strategy Site​

Civilization 5: Brave New World Cultural Win

Cultural Victory...​

Read more about this resource...

 

[Carlsguides]

Uploaded images used in article.

 

[joncnunn]

I'm seeing an awful lot of broken images on the first and second posts. [Now fixed]

Overall, well done. Anything I'm not commenting on is something I agree with.

However on paying for open boarders: Only worth paying for if it moves up the turn in which you'd have the very last influence over. (That one is usually, but not always the one with most culture).

It doesn't really matter if you changed timing of becoming influential by 20 turns if all it did was move up the 5th one to 3rd if there are two more AIs with more culture anyway.

Trying to get any AI to follow the religion you adopted: Not really worth it given how much all the AIs spam GPs and missionaries. And again; unless this is the civ with the most culture, it's probably not even going to move up turn of victory.

National Visitor Center and World Wonders with theming bonuses location: I would add that the best location for all of these is normally the capital.

Order: There is also a level 1 tenent that gives +25% GPP generation in this tree as well. It's named differently than the one in Freedom, but it's still there.

World Congress: World Religion: Awesome but not practical; you'll never get the votes to pass this unless you have enough for Diplomatic victory. And proposing it makes every AI that founded a religion hate you even when the measure fails.

Arts Funding: I find in a typical game on standard map size that 6 AIs will love the proposal while 1 hates it. I can live with one 1 AI hating me.

Cultural Heritage: It looks to me like the threshold for an AI loving this is having built 2 or more Great Wonders. Those who haven't built any will hate it.

Natural Heritage: Normally amounts to a do nothing proposal. None of the AIs will hate you; but only those with Natural Wonders within their borders would vote for it.

Historical Monuments: It looks to me like the threshold for an AI loving this is 2+ monuments in their territory. Those who haven't built any will hate it.

International Games: Loved by most AIs. It's seldom that any AI hates it.

Great Library: Awesome, but not practical: It's the most popular world wonder for the AI to build at King+

Parthenon: Actually better if an AI you have contact with builds it. Unless you are at war with them, they will gladly trade the work to you so you can complete a theming bonus.

Globe: I love this. One way to snag it is via Leaning Tower - twofer

Uffizini: Also great; timing is important here with them all needing to be in the same era

Sistine Chapel: I tend to let this one go; as it's competing directly against Uffizini & Louvre. I actually like it better when NOT seeking a cultural victory (for the cultural bonus protection; main reason I can think of to ever build it seeking cultural victory is the for the same reason to build Great Wall seeking domination victory : Denying it to the AI)

Louvre: Also great

Eiffel Tower & Broadway: I like both of them and would build both for cultural victories, but I find timing works out better for me if I build Eiffel first and Broadway later.

Sydney: Also great.

CN Tower & Broadcast Tower: Actually if you just build the Broadcast tower in the capital (and have all your World Wonders & National Visitor Center there) you get almost all of Freedom's tourism bonus.

 

[Camikaze]

RE: broken images - they appear fine on my laptop, but not on my mobile. Strange, given they certainly should appear correctly.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

One point on Theming Bonus for Museums...
The guide says you want them to be the same civ... that is NOT the requirement

+1 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Same Era

+1 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Both Your Civ OR Both Not Your Civ

+2 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Same Era
AND
Both Your Civ OR Both Not Your Civ

So two different foreign civs are fine

 

[joncnunn]

RE: broken images - they appear fine on my laptop, but not on my mobile. Strange, given they certainly should appear correctly.

I'm on my notebook; it appears to be the screen shots that are broken images while everything else is fine.

 

[Camikaze]

If you click on the thumbnails in post #4, do they display?

 

[joncnunn]

If you click on the thumbnails in post #4, do they display?

That brings up that individual screen shot there; but even clicking all of them doesn't change thread 1 & 2 screenshots being broken there.

 

[Browd]

I've tinkered with the image links. Do they display correctly for you now?

 

[Carlsguides]

One point on Theming Bonus for Museums...
The guide says you want them to be the same civ... that is NOT the requirement

+1 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Same Era

+1 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Both Your Civ OR Both Not Your Civ

+2 is
Both Art OR Both Artifact
AND
Same Era
AND
Both Your Civ OR Both Not Your Civ

So two different foreign civs are fine

I corrected this on the linked page, thanks.

As for images, they are rendering fine for me.

 

[Camikaze]

It seems Browd has fixed the problem.

 

[joncnunn]

I've tinkered with the image links. Do they display correctly for you now?

Yup; there are now working.

 

[Browd]

The only relevant World Congress resolution that I didn't see discussed is World Ideology. WI doesn't provide culture or tourism, of course, but it can be vital in staving off ideological unhappiness or, even better, forcing civs with other ideologies to convert to your ideology, which eliminates the -34% "other ideology" tourism penalty and frees up a diplomat that you can redeploy as a diplomat at another ideological enemy, or as a spy to steal some needed techs, or to rig elections in a city-state.

Also, in the linked Theming Bonuses article, the wonder chart needs one minor fix: For Uffizi, the Technology column should say "Architecture & Adopt Aesthetics."

 

[Calouste]

The Faith cost for Great Musicians (and any other Great People) is 1000, 1500, 2500, 4000, 6500. That makes it fairly unrealistic to get more than 3 of them, but you don't usually need more than that anyway.

I think you should talk a bit more about tourism generated by terrain improvements. Maoi, Chateaux and Brazilwood camps can generate large amounts of culture/tourism. Also, the Mughal Fort gives 2 Tourism after Flight.

 

[Carlsguides]

The Faith cost for Great Musicians (and any other Great People) is 1000, 1500, 2500, 4000, 6500. That makes it fairly unrealistic to get more than 3 of them, but you don't usually need more than that anyway.

I think you should talk a bit more about tourism generated by terrain improvements. Maoi, Chateaux and Brazilwood camps can generate large amounts of culture/tourism. Also, the Mughal Fort gives 2 Tourism after Flight.

I am sick at the moment but will put in the information on Great Musician cost when I am better. I will also put in that information about the Civ-specific terrain improvements to help people better select Civs suited to generating Tourism. For now, I'd have to edit this article in 3 places to get this info in, but I'll take care of it as soon as I am able.

Thank you all for taking the time to suggest improvements to make this guide better. It's a pleasure to help develop the War Academy. I've probably visited this site since I started playing Civ III way back when, so it's nice to know I've come far enough in my own gameplay that I can assist newcomers in improving their own.

The only relevant World Congress resolution that I didn't see discussed is World Ideology. WI doesn't provide culture or tourism, of course, but it can be vital in staving off ideological unhappiness or, even better, forcing civs with other ideologies to convert to your ideology, which eliminates the -34% "other ideology" tourism penalty and frees up a diplomat that you can redeploy as a diplomat at another ideological enemy, or as a spy to steal some needed techs, or to rig elections in a city-state.

Also, in the linked Theming Bonuses article, the wonder chart needs one minor fix: For Uffizi, the Technology column should say "Architecture & Adopt Aesthetics."

I fixed the column in the linked Theming Bonuses page.

You have made an excellent point about World Ideology, and I'll mention it when I am able to make these edits. That is not only going to help people offset the penalty, but also allow Order players to get their big bonus for shared Ideology from Cultural Revolution.

 

[danaphanous]

thanks for this guide! I hardly ever attempt a cultural victory as it's so foreign to me. Just did it once for the achievement and kinda winged it figuring stuff out as I went. This has made the mechanics make sense to me and I'm sure I'll do much better as a result next time.

 

[Calouste]

I am sick at the moment but will put in the information on Great Musician cost when I am better. I will also put in that information about the Civ-specific terrain improvements to help people better select Civs suited to generating Tourism. For now, I'd have to edit this article in 3 places to get this info in, but I'll take care of it as soon as I am able.

Thank you all for taking the time to suggest improvements to make this guide better. It's a pleasure to help develop the War Academy. I've probably visited this site since I started playing Civ III way back when, so it's nice to know I've come far enough in my own gameplay that I can assist newcomers in improving their own.



I fixed the column in the linked Theming Bonuses page.

You have made an excellent point about World Ideology, and I'll mention it when I am able to make these edits. That is not only going to help people offset the penalty, but also allow Order players to get their big bonus for shared Ideology from Cultural Revolution.

You also need a bit about how different influence levels between civs affect happiness. I think that is at the moment the least understood aspect of tourism in the game.

 

[Carlsguides]

I just updated the Guide to include some of the edits that were proposed over the last week. Info on Great Musician costs has been corrected. I mentioned more on Tile Improvements (including Holy Sites from finishing Piety) and the three Civs that can innately construct Culture-producing Improvements. Additionally, there is a bit about the World Ideology resolution and how it can be helpful in pursuing this Victory.

You also need a bit about how different influence levels between civs affect happiness. I think that is at the moment the least understood aspect of tourism in the game.

Thanks! This does indeed fit, and I'll definitely put something in although I need to decide just how much to add because there is quite a bit to the system and including it all could push this article beyond its intended scope. At present, that information is included as part of my Ideology Guide. That article serves as the gateway for Ideology selection at my site, which is a bit of a work in progress. I plan to add to that as I learn more about the game and improve my own play. As you probably know, we may encounter everything from a little Unhappiness from Dissidents to City-flipping from Revolutionary Waves. I think I will try to summarize it under the Influence levels section soon and link to that part of my site for more in-depth info.

 

[Moriarte]

I just updated the Guide to include some of the edits that were proposed over the last week. Info on Great Musician costs has been corrected. I mentioned more on Tile Improvements (including Holy Sites from finishing Piety) and the three Civs that can innately construct Culture-producing Improvements. Additionally, there is a bit about the World Ideology resolution and how it can be helpful in pursuing this Victory.



Thanks! This does indeed fit, and I'll definitely put something in although I need to decide just how much to add because there is quite a bit to the system and including it all could push this article beyond its intended scope. At present, that information is included as part of my Ideology Guide. That article serves as the gateway for Ideology selection at my site, which is a bit of a work in progress. I plan to add to that as I learn more about the game and improve my own play. As you probably know, we may encounter everything from a little Unhappiness from Dissidents to City-flipping from Revolutionary Waves. I think I will try to summarize it under the Influence levels section soon and link to that part of my site for more in-depth info.

There is bit of information that can be added to your ideology guide - civ of the same ideology as you are influencing you with 1 level of influence, which, in effect, cancels out 1 level of influence pressure created by opposing ideology. Or, maybe i missed that bit in your text.

And a nitpick:

Spoiler :

Causing Problems for Other Civs or Preventing Revolutions in Your Lands
Once your or another Civ is experiencing Civil Resistance or a Revolutionary wave, it's only likely to get worse. You must either greatly raise your Culture per turn or use a Great Writer to help generate instant Culture to lower their Influence level. Great Musicians are capable of delivering large amounts of Tourism at once to a Civ and raising the level of Influence. Removing or raising differences in Influence level will lower or increase the amount of Unhappiness a Civ is experiencing. If you do not have a high Tourism output and aren't planning to conquer another Civ that is influencing you, you may as well fall in line if Unhappiness is too much to bear. You risk losing Cities because of this. Thankfully, the AI can be very stubborn even if they are experiencing a large amount of unhappiness and I have seen Civs fall apart from this, losing their best Cities and turning their lands to swiss cheese, providing me puppets and gold per turn.

Writers do not lower tourism influence level through one time culture boost, they, in fact, slow down progression of opposition's tourism rate relative to your culture pool. So, basically, only musician or war can save you, not writers, unless they are "planted".

 

[Carlsguides]

There is bit of information that can be added to your ideology guide - civ of the same ideology as you are influencing you with 1 level of influence, which, in effect, cancels out 1 level of influence pressure created by opposing ideology. Or, maybe i missed that bit in your text.

Always appreciate corrections. Does this satisfy it? "If two Civs have the exact same Influence level with each other, they will cancel out and have no Public Opinon affect on one another."

Also, I'm sad to hear you can't actually lower influence levels with Writers, but have corrected that in the text to say that it will simply slow their progression to the next level. Thank you very much.

Edit: After speaking with a Moderator, I also threw a link in under Influence Levels to send people to more information about the Tourism and Ideology unrest system. To explain it in full would go far beyond the scope of this article given it is focused on Cultural Victory, and I did not want to go off topic too much. If you are doing well in progress on your CV, it is unlikely you have many levels of unrest against you anyway.