Cultural victory before 1900?

southpw11

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Is it possible?

I have ready many of the guides here on cultural victories. I keep my cities at 3 typically, but I just can't seem to get a cultural victory before nukes come out. Should I try it with 1 or 2 cities to achieve this?

Here is my most recent save, I normally play on king but I am trying to get some steam achievements so I am on settler difficulty I think, standard size and speed. I will get my cultural victory, but it will be near 2000 when it happens.
 

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I typically get my Culture wins by the late 1800's or early 1900's. I know I could do better if I more aggressively bought out Culture City-States or used Civilizations with unique Culture boosting buildings.

The key to the Culture victory is to pursue it above anything else. If you get distracted and don't push hard for the culture techs, build culture buildings/wonders as soon as possible, or ally with Culture city-states, then you're going to steadily fall behind. It's the victory type with the smallest leeway.
 
Without opening your save, let me ask some questions about your basic culture strategy. For reference, I normally get culture wins in the mid 1600s on Settler, mid-late 1700s on medium difficulties, and early 1900s on deity duel maps.

What civs are you playing as? If you want to speed up culture, Siam, Egypt, and France are great choices, with Aztecs also a great choice if you want a war-heavy game. Map type and game speed aren't going to matter as much, though land-heavy maps will be a bit faster just because you'll have more room to grow your cities and usually meet your rivals and the CSs faster.

Early game: Get at least one scout out first, looking for ruins. Don't use the auto-explore function. Then build a monument, start on a granary. Research pottery - calendar - writing and then philosophy on easier and harder difficulties (on mid-level, I find it's better to get a few others first and then use GL for philosophy). I usually end up buying the temples.

Policies: Take the Tradition opener for the +3 culture in your capital, then Liberty. Get yourself the worker and settler from the first two Liberty policies, then go take the Aristocracy tradition from Tradition for faster wonder production. You'll mostly be building wonders in your capitol for a bit, so this will help a lot. Do NOT take Legalism yet. You'll want to save that for Opera Houses. Get the remainder of the Liberty policies, which will give you a free GP of your choice. I almost always pick an Engineer, who rushes a wonder in my lowest-producing city. Next take all of the Piety policies. By this time you should be almost to the Renaissance, if not there yet. Acoustics should be your first Renaissance tech, which will give you access to Opera Houses. Don't build them, they're expensive. Instead, as soon as possible AFTER getting Acoustics, take Legalism, which will give you 4 Opera Houses instead of a few monuments or temples if you'd taken it earlier. You'll want to get all of the Freedom policies next, which will give you double output from great people tile improvements. The last policy branch is up to you, though Patronage is a good choice.

You're right that you don't want too many cities. You also don't want too few though. Four is ideal, since you get the four free culture buildings from Legalism, but three's usually fine too. If you really want more cities than that, acquire them as puppets, since they don't drive up policy costs.

How do you normally plan your techs? I've found that the best tech path is to follow the useful culture wonders, shooting for Philosophy first, then aim for Chivalry (Himeji Castle is +3 :culture: and provides a nice defensive bonus if you think you'll need it, but mostly gets you to Acoustics quickly. After Acoustics, take the sailing techs up through Navigation and then pick up Archaeology for the last major cultural buildings you'll need. Then go back and pick up the bottom of the tech tree as you find convenient. Make sure you get workshops and the ironworks in your capitol or other major production city to speed up the Utopia project when the time comes.

Use all Great Artists for monuments in your capitol to take advantage of the +%culture from Hermitage. Maybe save one right towards the end to make sure you'll have Golden Age turns to build Utopia.

How are you handling diplomacy? On Settler, it usually takes quite a bit of work to get someone to DoW you, so unless you really want that for some reason, you can pretty much ignore military. Higher up you'll need a few units, but still not many if you don't actively try to piss people off. I've won duel deity games where I didn't build a single military unit until the late Renaissance except early scouts and a caravel for exploration. City States are obviously key. The maritime ones can actually be as beneficial as the cultural ones, as they allow for fast middle-game growth (yielding more gold and production, and giving you food so you can have as many specialists working your temples/monasteries/etc).

The end of the game really depends on how much tech you'e gotten. You can go low-science, where after speeding to Acoustics and Archaeology you mostly ignore science. The other option is to keep pressing forward with science, aiming to get the free tech from the Sydney Opera House. There's a very direct path through the Industrial techs if you just want culture. You only need Bio, Steam, Electricity, and Radio before Mass media becomes available. If you can hard-research two of those, and save up any GS's you get during the game plus save Oxford university, you can often buzz through the Industrial Age very quickly, then build SoH or use a GE to rush it for what should be your last or second-to-last policy. Note that you'll need a few hammers, since a GE can only rush up to 1000 hammers, and SOH is around 1050. Note that Cristo Redentor is not nearly as nice as it used to be since the July patch, and the extra culture from radio towers usually does way more for you than CR would.

What wonders to you try for? Here's my mandatory/nice lists:

Mandatory:
Stonehenge
Oracle
Sistine

Really Really useful, nearly mandatory:
Hagia Sophia - get a GE, use it to rush another wonder in a low producing city (for bonus from 3rd Piety policy)
Hanging Garden
Louvre
Great Library
Notre Dame (Note that the + 10 happy is also +5 :culture: with bonus from Piety policy).

Nice if you can get them:
Pyramids (only good if you can get it in 2nd city reasonably early; generally not worth building in capitol).
Angkor Wat
Chitzen Itza
Porcelain Tower, especially if going for higher tech option mentioned above.
Great Wall (early + 3 culture)
Himeji Castle & Kremlin - mid and late-mid game +3 culture


Good luck!
 
What map type/map size/game speed do you normally play? For reference, I normally play king/standard/continents.

I have been attempting cultural victory like this:

techs: beeline education (except necessary techs for luxuries), back-tech to get iron/military units, accoustics, archaelology, radio, telegraph, mass media

wonders: GL, oracle, sistene chapel, cristo redentor

policies: liberty for settler/worker, piety tree, freedom, patronage, commerce

overall: 3-4 cities max, focus on farms/pop growth for great people with at least 1 city for heavy production. Militarily overtake 1-2 civs near me and puppet their good cities, this is done to stop them from getting big and keep my numbers high without affecting culture breakpoints. somewhere in mid-game when I get good gold flowing, start allying with CSs.

Anyway, I will try your strategy. Thanks for the writeup.
 
I've never tried to see how fast I could win a cultural victory!! I'll be giving this a go for the next few days and reporting back :goodjob:
 
regarding the 4 opera houses from legalism tip.
i tried this a few games ago
and ended up with 2 instead of 4, although all 4 cities had all the previous culture buildings, and had all been settled by me.
is it possible it has been nerfed in a recent patch, so you get less buildings if the buildings are higher on the tech tree?
 
regarding the 4 opera houses from legalism tip.
i tried this a few games ago
and ended up with 2 instead of 4, although all 4 cities had all the previous culture buildings, and had all been settled by me.
is it possible it has been nerfed in a recent patch, so you get less buildings if the buildings are higher on the tech tree?

No, that's not possible. You most likely forgot to build monasteries in cities with access to wine/incense before taking legalism.
 
regarding the 4 opera houses from legalism tip.
i tried this a few games ago
and ended up with 2 instead of 4, although all 4 cities had all the previous culture buildings, and had all been settled by me.
is it possible it has been nerfed in a recent patch, so you get less buildings if the buildings are higher on the tech tree?
No. Is it possible you've forgot about monasteries? It happens to me all the time.

Edit: ninja'd! :)
 
I went with Korea last night and gave it a shot on prince/continents/standard. I had Monty to my west who DoW me around turn 50 and we were at war most of the game. Incans were south of me and were once in a DoF with me but backstabbed me around turn 100 or so. I was holding both of them off just fine for the rest of the game. Needless to say the constant defending and such really hurt my chances of a pre 1900 win. I DID have MI in about 1850 so I started going at Inca with them and liberated Tyre and another CS so that was fun. I turned the game off in 1930 I think it was. I was about 12 turns away from finishing Utopia so I am pretty sure I can beat 1900 if I can manage to keep the game peaceful.

More to come...
 
1600s is entirely possible, though it was easier prepatch.

the hall of fame has some games that fit the bill, though most were prepatch. the only competition post patch at prince or above was an epic, emperor, culture, arabia game on an inland sea map that i won in 1704. i am doing a long writeup of that game.
 
Tommynt did a deity pangea win at 1780 AD standard speed with Germany for the last GOTM 19. His theory consists in not going for Piety at all but for rationalism instead. By getting last culture techs sooner, he can increase his CPT higher. Well at least at Deity. Pretty impressive...he even gone into wars and dominated every fields or close.

For slower pace and/or difficulty, there is certainly much room for better scores.

Save is below.
 

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