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Cultural Victory Elimination Thread (no SS)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by kryat, Jul 28, 2020.

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  1. kryat

    kryat King

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    This thread is moderator approved.

    In this iteration of the Elimination Threads, we are tackling Cultural Victory. As with the last few threads, you are tasked with ranking each civilization in terms of its ability to achieve this win condition. You may use any justification you wish, but it is recommended that you justify “in the spirit” of the victory condition and not a win by default through excessive domination.

    NFP Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-states-elimination-thread.660516/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/


    Previous Gathering Storm Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/

    Before GS Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/

    Rules:
    - Roughly every 24 hours you may vote. You add one point to one leader and take away three points from another.
    - Posts with missing upvote or downvote are skipped. Only voting posts are allowed in this thread.
    - You must write a reason for each upvote and downvote.
    - Voting many times for the same thing is allowed, though it is really recommended to spread your votes among many civs if possible otherwise things could get kind of annoying.
    - Delete the previous voters comments, and indicate your comments in some way (bold, italicize, color, something that will draw attention)
    - We only vote basing on CURRENT power of unique features based on MOST RECENT PATCH for Gathering Storm.
    - Since we have some added weirdness with game modes that could skew things, for now, DO NOT CONSIDER SECRET SOCIETIES GAME MODE. We may consider with this mode at a later time.

    Other than that, feel free to rationalize your selections however you wish. For your rationale, you should include any aspect of the civilization/leader including unique infrastructure, units, or abilities.

    Starting scores
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [15]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [15]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [15]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    xaiviax and Bangau like this.
  2. kryat

    kryat King

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    Tiers are sorted into rough groups based on significant gaps in eliminations. The gaps get wider toward the top because the top contenders need a lot of voting down. There's two groups for S and A tier because a lot of leaders have great paths for culture.

    S+ Tier - Has overpowered path, will almost certainly win CV if you know what you're doing

    1. Peter/Russia
    2. Pericles/Greece
    3. Kristina/Sweden
    4. Menelik/Ethiopia (post #398) The newcoming Lion of Judah gets a very powerful faith-driven culture victory without needing religion. Turning raw faith into bonus science and culture without spending the faith helps keep him moving along while being able to focus on whatever the game needs. He also possibly has the best faith economy in the game thanks to a great UI, and is rewarded with more faith through making trade routes, which enhance tourism. And will probably mop up most artifacts.
    5. Qin Shi Huang/China (post #382) The first emperor gets very fast early wonders, and a great UI for sheer raw culture generation that translates into tourism later. And skips through the tech and civics trees thanks to more powerful eurekas and civics. And gets bonus builder charges!
    6. Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) (post #381) The Bull Moose has easy culture and science for the whole game, more powerful national parks than anyone, and a massive late game kick. And a little bit of extra flexibility with governments to enhance tourism in the late game.
    7. Gorgo/Greece (post #365) The Queen of Sparta has unrivaled early culture (provided you can find someone to fight), an extra wildcard slot, and an enhanced theater square.
    8. Catherine/France (Mag) (post #357) Has an exceptionally powerful (some might say cheese-powerful) city project that can spread to tourism before first meets. Otherwise, also has some decent culture generation, but it's the projects you play the Magnificent Queen for.
    9. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada (post #355) Uniquely can create national parks from production or gold, saving valuable faith for rock bands. Has latecoming bonuses, but they hit hard.

    S- Tier - Has overpowered path, will win much more often than not
    10. Cyrus/Persia (post #328) Has one of the best, if not the best cultural infrastructure in the game. Modest culture throughout the game, adds some gold, gives tourism later, and highly boosts appeal. Has a small boost to culture from trade routes to boot. The Pairidaeza might be his best tool, but it's a very strong tool.
    11. Hojo Tokimune/Japan (post #320) The best jack of all trades. Can get very reliably high adjacency on holy sites and theater squares and can make both for half. For bonus points, has a culture-generating unique building, but it's the district-spamming +1 all districts that you play Japan for.
    12. Kupe/Maori (post #317) - Incredible faith and culture yields from building just one building that go straight into tourism at flight.
    13. Cleopatra/Egypt (post #316) - Has a spammable appeal enhancing UI that gives faith and culture. Said best, she is generally rewarded for doing things that enhances tourism (ie, better trade routes, faster alliances, building wonders).


    A+ Tier - Has a strong path, usually won't face a challenge

    14. Gitarja/Indonesia (post #285) - Has a spammable tourism UI that doesn't take up land real estate and very high faith income.
    15. Pedro/Brazil (post #277) - One of the best jack of all trades, with great GWAM generation, great adjacencies, and unique rainforest national parks.
    16. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo (post #266) - Bonus GWAM points are always appreciated, and the palace gives space to keep spare.
    17. Trajan/Rome (post #253) - Free monuments powers effortlessly through the early culture tree.
    18. Jayavarman/Khmer (post #241) - Has a unique reliquary game. It's a strong one trick pony that needs a cooperative opponent.
    19. Mansa Musa/Mali (post #238) - Strong in the late game, with a sizeable faith economy and a killer gold economy. He can buy whatever he needs for victory, though maybe a little late.


    A- Tier - Has a strong path, better than average contenders
    20. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary (post #227) - Great production toward theater squares and buildings, and a weak source of tourism in thermal baths. Can secure some suzerain bonuses when necessary.
    21. Tamar/Georgia (post #223) - Has decent envoy control, decent faith economy, and walls give some tourism.
    22. Eleanor/France (post #219) - Similar reasons to Catherine below. In addition, while she's incentivized to hoard great works, they aren't directly more powerful for her.
    23. Catherine/France (BQ) (post #218) - Chateaus are a strong culture and tourism source, but later wonder spamming isn't as useful as early wonders, since tourism is a lifetime metric. And while Catherine's spies start stronger, they end as strong as anyone else's at heists.
    24. Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) (post #215) - The film studio is strong, but comes late, and RR Teddy doesn't have the same appeal bonus his Bull Moose counterpart comes with.
    25. Lautaro/Mapuche (post #210) - The chemamull is his best trick, and it's a decent source of culture. But that's about it.
    26. John Curtain/Australia (post #205) - Has very strong production play, and great adjacencies for theater squares. But those high appeal tiles that give high adjacency also want to be national parks and seaside resorts later.


    B Tier - Has an average path to CV

    27. Jadwiga/Poland (post #182) - Slightly stronger relics helps her through culture, and slightly better holy sites helps buy rock bands and naturalists.
    28. Pachacuti/Inca (post #172) - A very strong generalist with sky high production and food who can make good national parks and can make a decent Machu Pichu play. But he'd rather improve tiles near mountains into Terrace Farms than make them parks, and production can be difficult to leverage into a culture victory.
    29. Montezuma/Aztec (post #168) - Converting enemy units into early builders is pretty useful, especially when Monty can sacrifice builders into faster districts. But Montezuma's other bonuses highly encourage more domination than quietly setting up a culture victory.
    30. Wilhelmina/Netherlands (post #165) - Better adjacency yields on theater squares than most, but lacks direct bonuses to tourism.
    31. Amanitore/Nubia (post #158) - Can build theater squares faster. That's better than a lot below, but Amanitore would rather stick you with arrows.
    32. Gilgamesh/Sumeria (post #149) - Ziggurats are spammable culture yielding tiles, but their culture addition is pretty minimal, and Gilgamesh tends to lean more into science and domination.
    33. Poundmaker/Cree (post #144) - Viewed by many as a jack of all trades, master of none, Poundmaker lacks the direct bonuses that would push him higher.
    34. Dido/Phoenicia (post #143) - Tourism options open up on early meets, but Dido doesn't match Kupe for that. Lots of trade routes and settler spam can help as well, but overall, no direct bonuses.
    35. Gandhi/India (post #130) - Ghandi can leverage religion into a culture victory, but those above probably have more direct bonuses.


    C Tier - Has a viable path, but something else might be easier

    36. Seondeok/Korea (post #116) - Science is useful for cultural victories to hit key techs like Steel, Flight, and Radio, and Korea hits these faster than anyone. Korea also gets some cultural bonuses through governors. But these are hard to leverage into tourism benefits without the underlying culture infrastructure. You'll probably hit a science victory first.
    37. Saladin/Arabia (post #113) - Religion can be leveraged into cultural bonuses, but more direct bonuses to culture and tourism are typically better. Saladin has more clear pathways to victory than pursuing culture.
    38. Robert the Bruce/Scotland (post #104) - Scotland is a strong player for science to get flight/radio and production to build wonders, but wonders are a marginal source of tourism, and flight/radio only are strong if you have a decent cultural base to start with.
    39. Eleanor/England (post #102) - While Eleanor has a strong incentive to collect great works, England Eleanor has bonuses toward polluting, which kills appeal. Additionally, the great works she does collect aren't more directly powerful for a CV than for anyone else.
    40. Frederick/Germany (post #96) - Germany's production focus could be leveraged toward building wonders and theater squares, but Frederick lacks true cultural bonuses.
    41. Alexander/Macedon (post #93) - Alexander has some incentive to conquer cities with wonders which could build his tourism output. But at that point, are you playing for a culture victory?
    42. Genghis Khan/Mongolia (post #92) - Trade routes are a decent way to boost tourism, but Ghengis Khan be Ghengis Khan. You'll probably want to play for a domination victory.


    D Tier - Has a very narrow path, but should pick a different one

    43. Chandragupta/India (post #78) - Chandragupta has a better faith economy than some, but he would rather be warmongering, which detracts from tourism modifiers.
    44. Harald Hardrada/Norway (post #77) - Harald's main strength lies in pillaging, which can be a potent culture source, but doesn't generate much tourism, and generally keeps tourism modifiers low.
    45. Tomyris/Scythia (post #65) - Kurgans can be used to buy naturalists and rock bands, but that's not really playing to the strengths of Tomyris's toolkit.
    46. Victoria/England (post #60) - A former cultural powerhouse that's been turned into an industrial complex. Victoria actively works against making appealing territitory.
    47. Philip/Spain (post #56) - Philip specializes in science, trade, and some religion, but has a hard time leveraging any of that into tourism.
    48. Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia (post #55) - You may notice a theme here... warmongers don't make inviting vistas. Simon has nothing in his toolkit that can be leveraged into tourism or culture.


    F Tier - Has no viable path

    49. Lady Six Skies (post #37) - A relatively weak civ with a strong disincentive to settle too many cities, which limits tourism generation.
    50. Shaka/Zulu (post #34) - A strong domination focus with nothing toward tourism.
    51. Suleiman/Ottomans (post #28) - A pure domination machine with no bonuses to culture or tourism. However, his warmongering really comes online late in the game, right when it would it starts to really count against tourism.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2020
  3. Arithmion

    Arithmion Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2020
    Messages:
    110
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [15] Possibly the runaway best, though I'm not an expert on this VC.
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [15]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [15]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12] 15-3 Domination still hurts your chances at victory, correct? If so, an early civ to go.
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  4. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    682
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [16]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [12] 15 - 3 Faith to spare but very little religious tourism. No science bonuses to get to Flight to get the rock church tourism working either.
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16] 15 + 1 Old Reliable.
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  5. kryat

    kryat King

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [16]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [13] (12+1) I’ll have to disagree. Faith buying museums and archaeologists is absolutely a path to a cultural victory. And their UI gives tourism. And they have bonus 15% culture in many cities. It’s a great CV candidate.
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12] (15-3) Usually one of my favorites, but Scotland really struggles to get culture going because they want to build so many other districts.
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [12]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Weraptor and Mediocrity like this.
  6. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2020
    Messages:
    341
    Well Catherine/France (Mag) is the only one who's able to win on T80-ish. So I guess they will win. Unless people don't realize how powerful they are yet. It's harder to decide who to downvote. Zulu it is then. If Catherine/France (Mag) got a clear lead I will vote something else.

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17] (16 + 1) 0 Tourist on Turn 79 and culture victory on Turn 89 -- only doable by Magnificent Catherine. I wonder if people can do a sub T70 culture victory with them. If they do I won't be astonished.
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [13]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9] (12 - 3) You can't win culture via forming corps or armies.
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  7. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    712
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12] (15-3) He has nothing to help him here, though I'm sure some will try to argue that his ability to conquer the world trumps that.
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [15]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14] (13+1) Yeah, having just finished one of the easiest cultural victories I've ever won with him I have to disagree as well. Rock Hewn Churches are very good (they provide not only tourism but appeal as well, leading to more national parks if you plan properly), he gets free museums and archaeologists, and his faith economy is so strong he can spam enough apostles to go relic-hunting (and if Yerevan is in the game, watch out). Probably not top tier but shouldn't be getting voted down already IMO.
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  8. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
    Messages:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Be careful to assume that dom oriented civs cant win culture! You can use your army to eliminate high culture threats (usual suspects like Greece) or civs that earn many great people (Russia, Kongo).
    Once you have destroyed a large part of their empire, you can then focus on building your culture game.


    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12] (15 - 3) Mayan should be at the bottom of the pack. If you think culture you usually think not just wide but ultrawide and Mayans really suffer from playing ultrawide.
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [15] (14 + 1)
    Dont be too quick to dismiss Menelik. Tried Ethio + SS and had like 400+ science with Voidsingers (obviously) and 3 campuses circa turn 120 - 130 and culture vic in turn 16X.
    Obviously, this guy can do much more with more campuses.

    Edit: What I am trying to say is that if I only had 3 campi in a fun mode and already swimming in science, imagine what more can I do if I focused on more campus early on.

    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [15]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [15]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]

    Edited: To reflect correct scores from synchronisation error
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
    8housesofelixir likes this.
  9. kryat

    kryat King

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    Messages:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Per rules, please do not consider SS
     
  10. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    550
    Gender:
    Male
    I know those elimination threads are very popular... but is it wise to do them while we'll have a bi-monthly release of new civs and leaders? I mean, we can't perfectly judge Menelik II on anything, and a lot of people are still trying to figure out LSS and Bolivar.
    But, anyway, I'll cast a vote because 1) you can't post anything if it's not a vote and 2) I like those ET myself :D


    Will we still have this debate? We know that conquest is always the best way of winning any victory, except maybe Diplomatic, and even that... Why do we do those threads if we will still vote the same warmongers on top?

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12] (15-3) I hesitated between him and Robert Bruce and went for the Incans. Why? Because, except for high production useful for everything, they have nothing towards CV. No additional faith/culture/GPP output, and one of the spreading of your culture (trade routes), you're pushed to do all of them internally. Pachacuti is the ultimate turtling civ, with absolutely no need to see other peoples even through trade, and you can't impose your culture to everybody if you don't interact with them. Oh, also: if some people say "yes but with all the mountains you can do a lot of national parks" -> yes, but those tiles are most probably hills and thus used by terrace farms and not by national parks.
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16] (15+1) Four massives sources of tourism: 1) great works 2) national parks 3) seaside resorts 4) rock bands. Buying naturalists and rock bands is done by faith, something Peter will swim in with his half-cost Lavra; great works are created by GW, GA and GM, and you start right at the beginning to produce even more points towards them; national parks and seaside resorts are based on appeal, and while Peter has nothing towards appeal, it's easy to find untouched land close to woods and mountains far in the tundra where nobody will settle. Peter is clearly a monster towards CV.
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    hhhhhh likes this.
  11. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,656
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Menelik + Voidsingers was mentioned. But should we include alternate gamemodes in elimination threads? It is far from standard random setup we should consider IMO, otherwise just give Peter 1st place because of Lavra + old gods monument. (though I believe Russia would win even without that buff)

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [15]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9] 12-3 Scotland without exlightment is just a vanilla civ. Culture victory unlike some other victories, is a clear function of numbe of cities, the more cities you have, the least impactful enlightment is, making Scotland in fact a civ without any bonus to anything
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [15]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16] 15+1 Ultimate tundra national park spam via gold purchasing. I don't expect very top position, but finally some love for a civ I love to downvote in every other elimination thread
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  12. Francel

    Francel Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    195
    Gender:
    Female
    Firstly, let me thank @TCBB before moving onto voting in the next elimination thread. I couldn't post after the last one was locked, obviously, but TCBB did an excellent job writing things up and presenting the results at the end (first post). This should definitely be the new standard imo. Also, perhaps there should be a stickied post somewhere that includes the results from all these elimination threads in one place?

    Moving on... Full disclosure I cannot yet comment on Magnificence Catherine. Winning CV in under 80 turns sounds incredibly OP though.

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16] (15+1) - Reliquaries + prasat is strong for tourism. You will likely found a religion as Khmer anyway, so you don't have to go out of your way for reliquaries. This isn't a popular belief either, so you shouldn't miss out. Not going to factor in the voidsingers as per the instructions. No one else can get as many relics as Khmer (or so soon for that matter).
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14] I hope I don't sound like a jerk, but it kind of irks me when people say things that straight up aren't true, like they don't have a science bonus. Plus, they can faith purchase archeologists. Even if you discount their unique perks, just having high faith output is useful for rock bands and naturalists. Downvoting Ethiopia first makes about as much sense as downvoting Alexander first in a domination thread.
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [15]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12] (15-3) - Not overly fond of these guys. They have a domination focus, a unique governor that takes away from Pingala (the OP science/culture guy), and don't hit their stride until Renaissance.
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    Pietato, TCBB and kryat like this.
  13. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,187
    I'm seeing a lot of downvotes for civs purely because they don't have any culture specific abilities. These civs certainly don't belong in the top tier, but a civ without culture abilities can absolutely still play a solid culture game if it invests in the right districts wonders etc. and leverages its abilities to support these goals. To actually belong in the bottom tier, a civ needs to be a weak civ overall, in addition to lacking cultural bonuses.

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15] Lets you recycle some of your GWAM points, and, perhaps more importantly, can kick things off with obscene faith and production by stacking Sacred Paths with the Amazon UA and then taking the Work Ethic belief.
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [12] (15-3) pretty much the definition of a weak civ overall that also lacks cultural bonuses
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [15]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  14. EmJayLambert

    EmJayLambert Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    North West England
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16] (15 + 1) Cheap Theatre Squares & extra adjacencies gives him a good headstart & then his UB provides culture too. Probably won't win but versatile enough to be in the discussion.
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [12]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [14]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [12]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12] (15 - 3) continuing the downvoting for warmongering
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  15. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    7,408
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9] (12-3) I think the Maya get sorely underestimated, but Culture is not their forte.
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [15] (14 + 1) I just won my earliest CV based on very little except Rock-hewn Churches and National Parks; don't underestimate the value of Menelik's faith economy. My map was so artifact-poor that his faith-purchasing Museums and Archaeologists was just a side benefit.
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil. [15]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [12]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [15]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  16. JesseS

    JesseS Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2020
    Messages:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Post #8 included an upvote for Ethiopia that wasn't included in subsequent posts. I've added it back.

    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [16]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [16]
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [9] (12-3) A weak civ overall with nothing to help them culturally.
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [16] (15+1) China gets early wonders with 5 builder charges, extra science and culture from eurakas and inspirations, gold, culture, and tourism from the Great Wall, and extra builder charges all game. All very helpful for cultural victories.
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [9]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  17. fredrikslicer

    fredrikslicer Tailor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2016
    Messages:
    146
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [16]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [17] 16 +1 easily up there with culture and wild card
    Peter/Russia [16]
    Philip/Spain [9]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [16]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [6] 9-3 entierly war focused
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [15]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    EmJayLambert likes this.
  18. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    373
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [16]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [17]
    Peter/Russia [17] (16+1) He's a cultural monster. He will always get hold of those early writers and artists. You not being the AI will take care that you slot those works earlier than later. If he gets his normal tundra start unchallenged, he also becomes a faith and production monster with work ethic + dance of the aurora. That means he will be able to compete for the good wonders. Later he will also outrock everybody because of all that faith (if the game even comes that far).
    Philip/Spain [9]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [16]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [6]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [12]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [12] (15-3) the British Museum is no more.
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
  19. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    364
    Gender:
    Male
    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [17]
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [16]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [17]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [9]
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [16]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [6]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [9] (12 -3): A few positive things I'll say about Shaka's culture game is that the extra housing from the Ikanda can help for getting large cities (which I find to be helpful in culture games) and that you're sort of incentivized to lean into culture as a resource because of the early corps & armies. The only thing about Suleiman's game that makes you value culture is the Barbary Corsair, which just isn't as much as an incentive as it is for Shaka. I usually find when I'm playing Shaka that I just naturally get a decent amount of culture because I'm trying to get to that corps push early. I can't say the same for Suleiman, so I think he should be the first to go. Granted, Shaka shouldn't be too far behind him.
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [12]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [17] (16 +1): I really like Wilfrid's culture game, in all honesty. Being able to convert gold into Naturalists instead of faith (via the Mountie) is a really great bonus, allowing you to save that precious faith for Rock Bands. On top of that, the Ice Hockey Rink is a really great source of tourism. Bumping him up now since I predict he'll get dogpiled later on because "lol Canada bad".
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    bengalryan9 likes this.
  20. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    84
    Let me also thank @TCBB for an outstanding job on the last elimination thread.


    Alexander/Macedon [15]
    Amanitore/Nubia [15]
    Catherine/France (BQ) [15]
    Catherine/France (Mag) [18] (17+1) My first upvote for one of the best.
    Chandragupta/India [15]
    Cleopatra/Egypt [15]
    Cyrus/Persia [15]
    Dido/Phoenicia [15]
    Eleanor/France [15]
    Eleanor/England [15]
    Frederick/Germany [15]
    Gandhi/India [15]
    Genghis Khan/Mongolia [12]
    Gilgamesh/Sumeria[15]
    Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
    Gorgo/Greece [15]
    Harald Hardrada/Norway [15]
    Hojo Tokimune/Japan [16]
    Jadwiga/Poland [15]
    Jayavarman/Khmer [16]
    John Curtain/Australia [15]
    Kristina/Sweden [15]
    Kupe/Maori [15]
    Lady Six Sky/Maya [9]
    Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
    Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
    Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [15]
    Menelik/Ethiopia [16]
    Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [15]
    Montezuma/Aztec [15]
    Pachacuti/Inca [12]
    Pedro/Brazil [16]
    Pericles/Greece [17]
    Peter/Russia [17]
    Philip/Spain [6] (9-3) Agree with weak overall, and culture is very low on Spain's victory strengths and priorities.
    Poundmaker/Cree [15]
    Qin Shi Huang/China [16]
    Robert the Bruce/Scotland [9]
    Saladin/Arabia [15]
    Seondeok/Korea [15]
    Shaka/Zulu [6]
    Simón Bolívar/Gran Colombia [15]
    Suleiman/Ottomans [9]
    Tamar/Georgia [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (RR) [15]
    Teddy Roosevelt/America (BM) [15]
    Tomyris/Scythia [12]
    Trajan/Rome [15]
    Victoria/England [12]
    Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [17]
    Wilhelmina/Netherlands [15]
     
    TCBB likes this.
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