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Cultural victory is b.s.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by contempted, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. IronCrown

    IronCrown Black Foe of the World

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    I'm just revisiting Civ IV after more than a year of not playing – I mostly moved on to playing EVE Online – so this is the first time I hear about your mod. It sounds interesting enough, but to be honest I was never interested in mods that changed any rules of the game or even just made life easier for the player like BUG. One reason for that is that I was fairly active in multiplayer games and I like competitive play. Any form of rule-altering, UI augmentation, or cheating, basically creates a new game variant. I have the peculiar notion that the original game is something like scripture that has to be taken as it is, eternal and unaltered *g*

    BetterAI just taught the AI how to play its own game, so that is perfectly fine by me.
     
  2. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    Fair enough. But by the way, the BetterAI mod actually does include some game-mechanics changes. It add a hidden research penalty to later era techs, and it changes the research discount for tech known by other civs, and it changes the mechanics of air-to-air combat. So it isn't only teaching the AI to play its own game - and because of various bugs in the AI, I don't think it is significantly stronger than the original AI anyway; which is why I feel comfortable advising my own mod.
     
  3. contempted

    contempted Chieftain

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    Personally, I'm not at all inspired by FPS or anything like that. I will admit however, that I have no interest in learning about management costs, tiles, religion, etc. Its not that I'm not interested so much, I just don't get it, I don't know how to do it. War seems self explanatory, it doesn't seem like I have to "learn it" so much. And also maybe its my subconscious effecting the game, but I think the game rewards aggression. Most of the time when I lose(more like ALL Of the time), just like in this game, its because I wasn't warlike enough, I could have destroyed him with the snap of my fingers as I explained, also its hard for me to believe that I could be sitting there with nothing better than rifleman and be left in peace when others have tanks, and nukes. Call me hard headed, but in the real world when was the greatest culture ever the one that didn't have the most sophisticated military,the most land, the most money, the most science, the most luxury, etc. On this last point I will admit the possibility of my "not getting it".
     
  4. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    It is a game. It is not the real world. One of the nice things about a game (any game) is that it can be set up to follow any set of rules whether or not they are anything like the real world. A person only needs to find a game that has rules he or she likes. Picking a game and then complaining that the rules are different from what one would like, or from the real world, rather defeats the point. Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of that regarding CIV on CFF these days.
     
  5. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    This depends almost entirely on your diplomacy and map placement. If you are on a pangea shared with Shaka/Ragnar/Cathy/Monty/Boudica/etc, chances are unbelievably slim that you will be able to pursue a culture victory peacefully. They will pounce on you the second they get the chance. Also, even lesser warmongers will pounce on you if you don't treat them nicely, curb to their demands, gift them things, etc.

    Now if you are isolated (say, live on another continent), you don't have to worry about aggressive leaders as much since the AI is notoriously awful at amphibious assaults. They almost always attack the closest city they can (so if you have only one coastal city facing Rags, say, 99% he will go for it). They can and do occasionally sneak-attack and take a coastal city, sure... but they can never hold it, and they won't usually press the attack much further (besides pillaging all your seafood and maybe some inland stuff). Just make sure you don't leave any coastal legendary cities vulnerable and you'll be fine :)

    As for the advisors, I can't remember which F-key the Victory Conditions screen is, but its the button under the turn counter that looks like a little orange-red fist. It'll show you which AI are starting to creep up toward culture vcs, and which cities are getting close. You can then plan your invasion force to take and burn one of those cities to block the culture victory.
     
  6. Ramesses-Rules

    Ramesses-Rules King

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    I used to develop military units beyond rifles because I thought it was necessary for survival. It is not. I have won my last 3 Immortal games without ever going to war, and I had Rags, Izzy, and Khan as immediate neighbors in my last game. You need enough military to repel a late-game offshore strike from some no-hope military dude, but the others can be handled with skillful diplomacy, religion management, civics, gifts, Defensive Pact, etc. This is just one of the "tools of the trade" for those of us who specialize in Cultural Victory.
     
  7. Scoottr

    Scoottr Prince

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    I've had several games where I notice the AI is creeping up on a cultural victory. Then I switch to a plan of attack to destroy one of the those top three cities. Key is to pick a coastal one hit it hard and fast. I destroy it so that if I lose the city to that civ in the next couple of turns it can't restart its plod to victory.

    Just need to check the victory conditions every once in awhile (I play marathon). Usually the civs 4th most cultural city is way far behind those 1st three.
     
  8. capnvonbaron

    capnvonbaron Democratia gladii

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    Many people advocate a nuke-nuke-paradrop doctrine as well for an emergency late-game defense against a culture victory if a coastal assault is impractical/impossible. I've never gotten to use it but it is certainly effective.
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I'm pretty sure this is wrong. BBAI has the AI do quite a bit, but at the core it at least tries and that puts it ahead of 80% of BTS AI instantly.
     
  10. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    Well, BBAI does try to have the AI to quite a bit, and a lot of it is really good stuff, but there are part of it which don't work very well at all. In my experience, the AI from BBAI has better military tactics than the default AI, as is better an aiming for victory, but is actually worse economically. ie. it makes poorer tech choices and researches more slowly. Lots of things stuff in the BBAI mod is a bit incomplete, and so although the framework is good, the end result is not particularly impressive.

    I posted about it here some time before I started making my mod. In any case, I feel quite comfortable in saying that the K-Mod AI is significantly stronger than BBAI; and I'd be surprised (and interested) if anyone who'd played K-Mod recently would say otherwise.
     
  11. Core Imposter

    Core Imposter Deity

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    Well, I am just starting to play this game and the AI seems to do weird things. Huge marathon prince 16 civs and the French have only 7 cities and have built about 80 frigates. I don't know why. What can the French do with those and about 20 longbowmen?
     
  12. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    What in the mother of holy freaking christ were you doing with future tech four@!?!@@!!@@!@!@?!?@?@?
     
  13. contempted

    contempted Chieftain

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    I guess I was just working on what was left. Is future tech worthless?
     
  14. slengtorm

    slengtorm Chieftain

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    Uh, yeah, basically. All it gives you is health and happiness, which is better than nothing but not by any great margin. It's pretty much just a bonus for having reached the end of the tech tree: you can bump up your health and happiness any time you want. Once you're to that point, though, you really should be actively winning the game - that is, your chosen victory condition should be within reach and you should know how long it will take to get there. Turn the slider down to zero and use the gold to win.
     
  15. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Why does everyone have problem with cultural victory?

    Cultural victory is BS - Beyond Sword
     
  16. digitalcraft

    digitalcraft Warlord

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    I often don't go for military victory either. I like military wars at early stages to beat down early competitors, but it is so booorrring later when you're pushing around 10,000 units.
     
  17. Ramesses-Rules

    Ramesses-Rules King

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    My highest-scoring games generally begin with a successful Chariot rush to improve my land holdings, and then transition into my normal Cultural Victory strategy. :)
     
  18. s.bernbaum

    s.bernbaum Mostly lurking

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    I have no problem with cultural victory. I find the military victories to be uninteresting and monotonous. The peaceful ones are the challenge. Culture and UN diplomacy, along with an occasional space race are my favorites. Now and then, I may do a domination for variety but it often becomes boring.
     
  19. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    You should have won the game about 123231726 turns before you research FT4! Hell if you are that far down the tech tree then ditch your beakers, and just get gold to rush buy units. Hell the AI winning a Culture victory is freaking late as hell by then. You need to watch what cities are close to culture in the VC panel, and smash who owns them much earlier.

    @s.bernbaum Peaceful victories are stupidly easy. Just turtle and tech up a storm. UN is probably the easiest of them all. All you have to do is vassal enough people for a large portion of the land, and be friendly with another big dude. Then you are set for an auto win.
     
  20. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    I often retreat to UN victory simply because it takes much less time. Crushing strongest AI really satisfies me, but all that troop managment and late game lagging don't really make domination/conquest that appealing. It prolongs my games from average 10 hours to 16 hours. I usually satisfy myself with knowledge I could have dominated easily and then just take UN with my 2 vassals and some friends. There's just too much RL going on.

    And I have to add that some cultural wins were much more cliffhangerish than many military approaches. There's a lot of adrenaline involved when racing and winning 1 turn before the AI thanks to switching AI out of free speech.
     

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