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cultural victory on Deity

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Dushku, Aug 11, 2015.

  1. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    A question for those who have (regularly) achieve a cultural victory on Deity: Would you say that world wonders are necessary?
     
  2. IronfighterXXX

    IronfighterXXX Work Hard - Play Hard

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    I haven't won any deity CV without world wonders, but that's because I see no reason to play suboptimally.

    I'm sure it's possible though - tourism from museums, national wonders and land with good tech rate should be more than enough.

    If not there is always option of total domination. :D
     
  3. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    If you can make Sacred Sites work at all on Deity, it won't need world wonders.

    And the conquest-induced cultural victory doesn't require you to build any world wonders either. You make as high conquest priorities the cities in which the AI has built the most desirable world wonders for a cultural victory.

    I'm of the opinion that on standard map speed for a pure peaceful cultural victory that the single most important world wonder (the one that if you don't have would slow down your victory the most which on Deity gives a chance for one of them to win space race victory) is the Leaning Tower of Pisa. If an AI beats me to Leaning Tower, I will instantly switch gears to either Space race or science induced UN as on a standard map size I know that if I fail to get Leaning Tower that my turn number of victory for that given from where I am then will be lower for spaceship than culture.
     
  4. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    When I commit to wonderless, Pisa's the one I miss the most too. If you were going for a cultural victory though, what great person would you choose from Pisa that missing it would make science easier?
     
  5. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    Pisa is also highly sought after on deity and I think I have about 60% chance of ever getting it. I usually take GE to rush either SoL or ET for CV. CN tower is also an option, but I've never bothered as it comes too late.
    Wonderless peaceful CV works best wide as you get a higher chance to get landmarks and more slots for museums.
     
  6. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    Personally only have 1 deity culture victory and, alas, I did build a wonder. However, I don't think it's necessary; I'm all but certain it wouldn't be necessary to build a wonder with any of the three civs that have culture UI's that amass tourism points through hotels/airports (Brazil, France, Polynesia) and probably not so with the rest.

    I think a better question would be whether or not it's possible to win a deity level culture victory without any warmongering. There's always one civ that gets about a half dozen wonders pre-Renaissance and continues to horde after that. The culture they amass becomes seemingly insurmountable, and can only become influential if you take their capital, both removing hundreds or thousands of CPT from their production and adding dozens or hundreds to your own tourism.

    As far as the one wonder to really shoot for, I agree that Pisa is incredibly valuable, but my vote is that it's second in importance to Sistine. Not that the theming bonus is that incredible, but rather so that someone else doesn't have that global 25% culture bonus that your tourism has to overtake. If one of the AIs that wasn't really focused on culture happened to build Sistine than it wouldn't be that big of a problem, but Sistine always seems to be a Murphy's Law scenario: whichever civ already has the runaway culture accumulation will always seem to get Sistine as well.

    Of course, that's not to say that building Sistine is vital, but acquiring it may be, at least from my experience. On deity level, conquering it is often more realistic than expecting to finish it. Which brings me full-circle to the original point - I don't think it's necessary to build wonders for deity culture, but a degree of conquest likely is necessary.
     
  7. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    Most of my deity CV were done with no warmongering at all. The key is to play a solid science game and make sure you get the archeologists early and then beeline internet. Winning quickly means there will be less lifetime culture to overcome. If you suspect culture runaways, bribing some aggressive civ to take them out of the game is an option. For example, in the France DCL, I bribed Ottomans to take out 3 civs. Bribing them to go to wars also slow down their science a lot because they can't sign RA and are forced to build military units.
     
  8. Dushku

    Dushku Prince

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    How early tech-wise? In the game I'm about to publish, I had a VERY tight science game. I went ST, Electricity/Oxford free Radio, then into Fertilizer, then into Archaeology. I had a serious tech lead, allowing me to casually play this way, but I was on Emperor. How to fit Archaeology into the tech path is one area I've struggled with looking forward to increased difficulty levels. I'd love to learn from somebody experienced at managing it on Deity.
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Given the timing I always pick GE from Leaning Tower.
    If seeking a culture victory and Globe is actually still available I'd build that.
    My alternative use for GE for Culture is Uffizini.

    If going non-culture, my normal choice of use for GE is PT.
    So hand building a single wonder has given me:
    25% faster Great Scientist (and all other great people) birth rate
    more science from Research agreements
    An extra Great Scientist

    If I miss Leaning Tower, I am likely to double and tipple check that I'm the only one with Rationalism before building PT to minimize the risk of wasting hammers yet again in the same game.

    The version of culture victory that for wonderless I would seek would be the conquest-induced one.
     
  10. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    It depends on how far you are ahead of the AI tech level. If you are ahead enough, oxford radio for the ideology freedom with 2x picks. Then into archaeology then fertilizer. It also helps if you're able to steal stuff such Navigation/Chemistry from AI as you'll shave off some turns. Otherwise you'll have to detour for archaeology before grabbing ideology through oxford/radio, and that's where I might also use a GS to bulb to speed it up. The key to doing it on deity is you have to dig up the artifacts before AI does. Also consider buying OB from every civ and parking 1 unit on top of digsites inside AI territories to give your archaeologist more time. (you can dig 1 from each civ without penalty). If you want to gamble at diplo game, you can dig more than 1, just make sure to plant landmarks also for the diplo boost. The digsites inside your territory isn't priority unless you sold OB, even then, you can just use your own units to block it.
    Not beelining for Oxford/Radio risks losing freedom picks, but since AI isn't likely to go freedom, you'll usually lose at most 1 SP. I do not suggest Order for CV on deity as you'll have problem getting the tourism bonus to work due to their happiness buffs. Also AI's do not like to pick order after you've got first pick so even the bonus to order is mostly wasted.
     
  11. stormtrooper412

    stormtrooper412 Peacemongering Turtlesaur

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    It's doable as Brazil and maybe France and pretty impossible, or at least, quite difficult otherwise. It then becomes kind of mandatory to win the IG and try to pass World Religion
     
  12. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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    In my opinion, Hubble and Great Firewall. To deny a science victory to AIs, and avoid a standstill with a cultural leader.

    You can do it only with Oxford, Ermitage and Museum bonus and landmarks.

    Louvre helps too, but it's a piece of luck if a cultural civ is on the board. Or you enough strong to catch it all games. So you master Deity and think peaceful victory is kinda boring, so you won a T200 warry cultural victory. ;)
     

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