Culture Accesibility Review.

[raxo2222]

There are 408 culture world wonders.

Some of them are unbuildable.
That is they have cost of -1.
There is 32 such cultures.
I guess this was some unfinished project.

Ashanti- 3 units
Ghana - 2 units
Nama - 2 units
Nok - 2 units
Songhai- 2 units
Liangzhu - 1 unit and 1 trade resource producing building
Malaysian - 2 units
Athenian - 3 units
Croatian - 2 units
Danish - 1 unit
Epirus - 1 unit
Leon - This one doesn't hold anything.
Macedonian - 1 unit
Pictish - 1 unit
Roxolani - 2 units
Slovak - 2 units
Venetian - 2 units
Lydian - 2 units
Massagetae - 3 units
Timurid - 2 units
Yemen - 2 units
Blackfoot - 3 units
Chippewa - 2 units
Mandan - 2 units
Pima - 2 units
Zuni - 2 units
Fijian - 2 units
Samoan - 2 units
Tahitian - 3 units
Wayana - 2 units
Yaghan - 2 units
Yanomami - 2 units

 

[Thunderbrd]

Are you saying you want to finish them and make them ready for inclusion? These were Sparth's incomplete ones I think.

 

[raxo2222]

I just made list of them.
I have no idea what tech and terrain/feature/resource would fit them.

Except those with ships could have coast as one of their requirements.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It was discussed a long while back why these weren't ready yet. I don't know where. Could be a good project for you to finish em off.

 

[Noriad2]

Adding even more cultures is great and enriches the game. But if you add more heroes to those cultures, then the number of heroes becomes excessive. Notably settling those heroes as military instructors in your military city will give an excessive amount of bonus xp. It may be a good idea to split up the culture groups: e.g. North American into North American and Central American, European into Northwest European (Germanic) Eastern European (Slavic) and South European etc.

 

[raxo2222]

Adding even more cultures is great and enriches the game. But if you add more heroes to those cultures, then the number of heroes becomes excessive. Notably settling those heroes as military instructors in your military city will give an excessive amount of bonus xp. It may be a good idea to split up the culture groups: e.g. North American into North American and Central American, European into Northwest European (Germanic) Eastern European (Slavic) and South European etc.

I'm not talking about adding heroes to cultures.
I here simply listed what these cultures unlock.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Nok is a problem because the African Culture Trade good is Nok Sculptures. We would need to find another Trade good for Africa and move the sculptures to the Culture. The other problem is that they are famous for having gone straight from the stone age to the iron age, skipping both the copper and bronze age with regard to tools and weaponry. Not sure how or if we could do that. I think they did it because they had something others really wanted and they were given the technology, via experts to train them, in exchange.

Liangzhu is mine, I think the rest are part of Sparths new cultures project.

Adding even more cultures is great and enriches the game. But if you add more heroes to those cultures, then the number of heroes becomes excessive. Notably settling those heroes as military instructors in your military city will give an excessive amount of bonus xp. It may be a good idea to split up the culture groups: e.g. North American into North American and Central American, European into Northwest European (Germanic) Eastern European (Slavic) and South European etc.

Not all Cultures get heroes. The intent was for each Culture to get two or three out of

• Hero that can build an Achievement
• Hero that can be used as a Commander and is only available if Great Commanders is on (yes this is still on my top do list)
  
• Hero that can build a special Wonder
• Combat unit
• Combat unit
• Non-combat unit eg merchant, explorer etc.
• Combat unit promotion
• Non-combat unit promotion eg plans for workers to build special terrain improvement
• Provide a Unique Trade good via a building set or maybe as "free bonus"

Note also that each hero needs to be looked at carefully to decide what type of settled specialist(s) they can become. I have noticed that one at least can only be settled as a Spy which is great.

Splitting the base Cultures is a big project as it affects many aspects of C2C. I would like us to have a Mediterranean and Central American with perhaps a Mid-East as well before any others.

edit the project to turn off the commander based hero may need to provide some sort of compensation instead.

 

[climat]

Building CULTURE with is just nonsense, anyway.
They could be built with a special unit like Great People. Or it may be better to make them auto-buildings that require certain amount of , if possible. I think it will increase importance of tremendously.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Building CULUTRE with is just nonsense, anyway.
They could be built with a special unit like Great People. Or it may be better to make them auto-buildings that require certain amount of , if possible. I think it will increase importance of tremendously.

Well, Johny Smith had some great ideas about all this. Pity I lost my copy of his suggestions when my computer and backup drive crashed :-(. I have not been able to find the detailed stuff again.

The basic idea was that when you reached a certain culture level or technology you were offered two options for your new Culture. Many could get each Culture this way. It is great for Cultures splitting off from other Cultures. It could be the basis for conquest and merger Cultures. However it is not really suitable for resource based Cultures.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not all Cultures get heroes. The intent was for each Culture to get two or three out of

• Hero that can build an Achievement
• Hero that can be used as a Commander and is only available if Great Commanders is on (yes this is still on my top do list)
  
• Hero that can build a special Wonder
• Combat unit
• Combat unit
• Non-combat unit eg merchant, explorer etc.
• Combat unit promotion
• Non-combat unit promotion eg plans for workers to build special terrain improvement
• Provide a Unique Trade good via a building set or maybe as "free bonus"

Thank you for bringing this list here. I was really hoping you could dredge this back up as it's a good set of guidelines imo and we need more creative application of these than what we've had so far, even going so far as to potentially replace less inspired elements with some more inspired ones.

Note also that each hero needs to be looked at carefully to decide what type of settled specialist(s) they can become. I have noticed that one at least can only be settled as a Spy which is great.

Another project concept I really support strongly. Limiting which achievements they can build would go along the same lines.

Building CULTURE with is just nonsense, anyway.

I agree. I feel that once the conditions are met (and we could make them a bit more stringent) they should automatically emerge there unless they've emerged into the game somewhere else. Get a popup notice and there ya go.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I feel that once the conditions are met (and we could make them a bit more stringent) they should automatically emerge there unless they've emerged into the game somewhere else. Get a popup notice and there ya go.

I disagree . That should be the case for JS type Cultures but even then you get a choice and many nations may choose the same as you have. There needs to be some effort put into getting the Cultures or they just become freebees to aid in steamrolling.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I disagree . That should be the case for JS type Cultures but even then you get a choice and many nations may choose the same as you have. There needs to be some effort put into getting the Cultures or they just become freebees to aid in steamrolling.

The effort is the same minus some odd imagination that we must construct or train people in the ways of the culture. Let's be honest, all that construction process is is a bump in the road for production and just serves to highlight that you have/had access to that culture and that you paid attention enough to get it. Otherwise, the challenge has always been getting the right combination of circumstances for the city. It doesn't feel like something that should be constructed but something that just happens as it coalesces in the local community. Rulers have never chosen for their people what the cultural identity of their people would be so why do we?

If cultures auto-emerged, I'd be more open to adding another layer of prerequisites which would be animal myth or story based as you were suggesting. It should help to capture the biome side of a culture's essence. Though I'd suggest it be an additive prereq to what's already established.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK as long as you do the same for Wonders I have no problems.

 

[Noriad2]

The most annoying part of cultures is that to play optimally, you'd have to check all your cities every once in a while to see if new options have become available.
This gets worse as your empire gets bigger.

This is a well-known problem in the 4x game genre in general: as your empire grows bigger, running it becomes more tedious. And handling over basic management to some AI local governor tends to be sub-optimal.

The optimal solution is more reporting tools. The F1 menu contains some but more would be welcome in general. A button to show all wonders and cultures available for construction, with their locations, would speed up the game for players considerably.

The business world in Real Life has the same problem: as companies grow, finding the right information to make optimal business decisions gets harder and harder. Collecting and retrieving needed information is called Business Intelligence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_intelligence

 

[climat]

Browsing Sparth's Cultures, I found that all of them require coast although some of them shouldn't. It seems that he left before finishing his plan.

 

[tmv]

Browsing Sparth's Cultures, I found that all of them require coast although some of them shouldn't. It seems that he left before finishing his plan.

Even Bavaria requires coast, although Bavaria's "coast" is roughly as long as Nevada's, and it hasn't had a coast since 976.

Spoiler Link to historical map :

(cf. Maximilian Dörrbecker (Chumwa) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Karte_Herzogtum_Bayern_im_10._Jahrhundert.png), „Karte Herzogtum Bayern im 10. Jahrhundert“, https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The most annoying part of cultures is that to play optimally, you'd have to check all your cities every once in a while to see if new options have become available.
This gets worse as your empire gets bigger.

We have been discussing the possibility of having an alert style mechanism for this and some other user settable things. I don't think we can have a flashing/animated icon on the map but who knows. In the city it could be a set of buttons at the top of the screen that are green or grey normally and red or something when your attention is needed. Things we have thought of so far

1. Culture available to be built
2. city can provide a resource that you don't have (technically the same as 1)
   
3. property getting out of control

Clicking the button would bring up a screen where you can see the details. For 1 & 2 you would be able to add the building(s) to the build queue and turn on/off notification of this type. With 3 you would be able to set the level(s), ie actual and delta, you consider needing attention. We may be able to provide a similar link to the build queue here also only displaying buildings and units that affect (aid) the property.

From a programming perspective it would be nice if we could separate out the build queue section of the code and reuse it for these screens. Less maintenance later on etc.

 

[Rmi]

I made several databases of all implemented cultures in c2c with all variables and attributes. Links are on the site somewhere.

Neither the Cultures, the overall regions or the units or heroes are balanced among themselves.
They are mostly balanced within the game though.

 

[raxo2222]

Can I reactivate Liangzhu culture by giving Celebration or something as unlock tech and cost of 50 or 100?

 

[Toffer90]

Can I reactivate Liangzhu culture by giving Celebration or something as unlock tech and cost of 50 or 100?