Culture and city switching

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Rakasak, Feb 14, 2006.

  1. Rakasak

    Rakasak Chieftain

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    Hi i've got two simples questions.

    When you got enough culture it's possible to take over a city from another civilization. When this happen, you got a message that : an "your civ" revolution is happening in "city name". And some turn after that the city change side. But I realize that the city didn't always switch to your side. What can I do to have better chance to take the city. Boosting the cultural slidder? Rushing the construction of cultural building.

    In the same idea, if another civilization try to take over one of my city, what can i do to prevent it to switch side. Sending troop to the city? Boosting the cultural slidder?

    Any help would be appreciated, I'm kinda confused about this aspect of the game.
     
  2. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    You're absolutely right on all of the things you said above. They all help in getting the neighboring city to flip or to help keep yours for yourself.

    In addition to the above, having a great artist making a "great work" in the closest city of yours to the neighbor's rebelling city or inside your city that is in rebellion will assure you a beneficial result. (This is called a "culture bomb.")

    Tom
     
  3. benjai

    benjai Chieftain

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    Another related question. I've read somewhere that a city taken by force cannot be culture flipped. Is this correct? I had the case where I took a city from Monty by force, only to have it flipped to Isabella a while later. Or does it only apply to the same civ?
     
  4. Rakasak

    Rakasak Chieftain

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    Ok great thanks for the information.
    Basicaly, when a city is thinking on joining my great empire, it's a good idea to sell the idea to them (Boosting the cultural slidder for some turn). And when they think of leaving me i should to the same thing plus sending some troop.
    I wonder what are the math behind this, does this work with the number of happy face in the city or only the cultural value of the city. How many unit is useful to send to a city, I don't want to lose to many if my city still switch to another side.
     
  5. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    Troops are useless against culture flipping. But of course, you can use them to capture nearby enemy cities, to get rid of the foreign culture sources. :)

    Otherwise, you need to create enough culture of your own. Culture bomb with a Great Artist is the most obvious and efficient way. However, if you have no GA available, you still can:
    - build (or rush buy) theater, temples, library, university, that is, any building that produces culture, whatever you can afford.
    - create one or more specialists-artists, if possible (usually you can do that after building a theater or running certain civics). You may even starve the city for a while.
    - use the culture slider, but only if your city generates enough commerce.
     
  6. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    The second. As far as I know, it depends on the amount of culture your city has accumulated.
    On my experience, only 1 or 2 units are culture-flipped with the city, the rest are still yours, so you may send as many as you want.
     
  7. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    While troops are useless to *prevent* the final flip, if there's some doubt in the citizens' minds about where to go, troops will reduce the incidence and duration of rebellion, I believe.

    Tom
     
  8. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    That's true, but I think it does not depend too much on the number of troops. In one of my games a stack of some 5 or 6 units did not prevent the city from culture-flipping. The citizens rioted as usual (one unit was damaged), then after a while the city flipped to Hatty. :)
     
  9. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    I was wondering about this, so I did a test.

    I took a size 12 city by force near the border of a neighboring Civ and saved the game.

    I put three units in it, then counted the number of times it rioted because of unrest and how long it lasted. Then I went back loaded the save, put six units in it and recorded the same information. In both cases, the other civilization was treated in appoximately the same way and the same city improvements were made (theatre, lighthouse, harbor.)

    I recorded in the second case that the number of turns in civil disorder in the next 100 turns were almost exactly half what they were in the first.

    Now, I could be wrong about this effecting cities ABOUT to flip, since I am extrapolating from the test and the conditions are different. However, when they *cannot* flip, troops certainly seem to make a difference.

    Tom
     
  10. Andrei_V

    Andrei_V King

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    Try reloading the game with exactly the same conditions (number of troops etc). I'm pretty sure even so you'll get different results. In some cases, the city won't flip at all with 1 unit. In others, it will with 8 units stationed. Same with the riots. But once again, you might as well be right. I did not perform systematic tests on this matter.
     
  11. frankcor

    frankcor Emperor

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    I wonder if the quality of the troops has any impact. I've dumped obsolete units and explorers into a rioting city to help soothe the citizens but never tested it to see if it worked the same as putting mech. inf. and modern armor there.
     
  12. b-dubb

    b-dubb Chieftain

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    The more troopos you park in a city, the less the riot chance is. From what I understand, a city has to riot twice before it will flip (PLEASE correct me if I am wrong!). I had a city (Berlin) that after I took it was completely swallowed by Mongol culture. Well, it had 0% Japanese and like a 10% chance of revolt, so I kept shuffling troops there and checking the revolt chance (all on the same turn). The more troops I moved there, the lower the revolt chance. Once I had about 25 units there, there was no revolt chance. I put a few more for good measure, and the city stayed swallowed by culture for a while, even after theater, broadcast tower, etc... but never rioted once.

    What it seems to me is more troops prevent a riot chance, but once a city has rioted twice, troops wont help.
     
  13. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    I too can confirm that more troops keep rioting (and therefore flipping down). The AI has 2 small cities very close to several large cities of mine (some with legendary culture). The cities are only 4% the AI's and 96% mine. Every 25 turns or so, one will riot for 4 or 5 turns, but NEVER flip to me. The AI has about 20 troops stationed in each, and that HAS to be what keeps them on lockdown.
     
  14. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    On Noble, I've had neighboring Civs lose cities to me after only one episode of rioting that I noticed. I'm pretty sure that overwhelming culture can cause flipping. If you want to see something that's really neat, watch what happens on a huge map when you're trying for a Cultural Victory. With the Culture slider in the 60-90% range, it's like a moss creeping over the world as more and more cities come into your possession--sometimes 2 and 3 within the same turn.

    Tom
     
  15. b-dubb

    b-dubb Chieftain

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    Actually, the game was a Prince Duel Highlands Future 18 Civs game, so my culture was already at like 90% the whole time ^^
     
  16. Rakasak

    Rakasak Chieftain

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    This is very interesting.

    Basically, Sending troop is a good idea if you want to keep a city and it's seem possible to keep a city for a long time.

    Thanks all
     
  17. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    Well, there's a caveat here. The quantity of troops that would 100% guarantee that the city would stay with you is so great that if you're playing at a level higher than Prince, you won't be able to afford them. In the long run, it is better to plan ahead and make sure that your border cities have enough culture to survive.

    Once you get Drama, building a theatre soon after founding the city is a good idea. Libraries and universities also contribute to its future survival, as do Great Artists' Great Works. Troops alone will not be enough versus as strong-cultured neighboring Civ.

    Tom
     
  18. Brazenheart

    Brazenheart Chieftain

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    I've noticed that in some cities that are on the verge of flipping to my empire, the troops stationed there take damage during the rioting. Does anyone have more information about this effect?
     
  19. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    It only applies to the same civ, and I don't think it's a permamanent situation. Though I don't know that for sure.
     
  20. Willem

    Willem Deity

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