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[Vanilla] Culture and Tourism Guide

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Victoria, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @walkerjks if you produce a campus as first district in your 1st 2 cities this tends to get science about right.
    Yes on continents you can avoid sailing completely if more than half the civs are on your landmass. The trouble is its part of the computers track and while the double is good, a hard early start with Kumasi and you do not even need computers.

    For this sudden jump, it will be when they discover castles, it will be a civ with culture tile improvements like france or china. They will also get a sudden tourism jump with flight.

    Have you tried Japanese cultural victory? Thats fun with adjacency.
     
  2. paulmclem

    paulmclem Chieftain

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    Would the Culture buffs advise whether they think it is possible to play a fairly generic/bit of everything game and perhaps move towards Culture in the mid-game? Feeling from reading a few posts is that winning reliability via Culture seems to almost require a strategy from T1.
     
  3. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    No, you can still play the normal early game. Build an army. Beat on immediate neighbors during the ancient era, if you are so inclined. Prioritize commercial districts, as trade routes are needed for tourism later, but have great flexibility in what they produce at any time of the game. Then make a choice mid-game. When I say industrial zones or entertainment districts or encampments or wonders or religion or spies are completely unnecessary for a cultural win, what I mean is that they are likely not part of a win the fastest possible min/max approach to the win. But they won't hurt and the reality is that once you have tourism ramped up, you catch up so fast that a sub-optimal strategy in the early game is likely going to make a difference of only 10 turns or so in win time anyway. Unless you are trying to compete in a GotM or the HoF, don't sweat it. And if you are trying to compete in those, warmongering is more optimal than the best totally peaceful strategy as the game is currently designed anyway.
     
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  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Quite the opposite as @walkerjks rightly says. The key is the AI does not bother with archaeology and thats by far the most powerful long term approach. So if at turn 150 you think, nah, I do not like this religious victory, I'll swap to culture, you should get there by turn 300 unless you have a heavy culture spammer like greece, china or kongo.
     
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  5. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    My "this makes sense" initial response to the suggestion of theaters first doesn't really do the idea justice. This is very powerful with Gorgo. I underestimated the advantage of the bonus adjacency with the acropolis. Essentially, when you build the acropolis, it's like getting a free monument. Except it can be doubled with the right card (and that extra card slot means you will be running the Aesthetics card). Early theaters means you are more likely to get the 60 gpp great writer. Normally, I wouldn't care, as I will trade art for these books later in the game (usually - the AI doesn't always have a great art slot available for the trade), but early theaters means you can build amphitheaters early enough to actually place great writers, rather than stash them for turn 135 placement, as I tend to do with Russia or Kongo (I don't get early great writers with anyone else). The tourism doesn't matter at this point, but +8 culture (and +2 for the amphitheater) is a huge boost to culture.

    The big trade-off seems to be missing out on some eurekas and inspirations you would normally get by building commercial before theater (Medieval Faires comes way too fast to get 4 trade routes up, for example), but if you have a higher culture/turn, skipping the boost on a few civics is still going to be faster.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    The big bonus with early acropolis is border expansion, one often spends big bucks in this area. But early feudalism is the real kickstart... As long as you get those 6 farms coz it can come up quite fast...
    Pericles is also not to be underrated if you play a CS game but his bonus is powerful at turn 100, gorgo gets that erratic jump start.
     
  7. Forbiddentwo

    Forbiddentwo Chieftain

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    "A few cities around the 4-6 mark are enough to gain the tourism you need for victory, mainly through Archaeological Museums. You will likely get some artwork along the way so having some art museums or swapping them for artifacts are the options open, or just play with the pretty pictures too."

    I tried this on deity and was crazily outpaced by Gilgamesh (who trumped even Mvemba) who just spammed a kajillion cities :(.

    "Going Tall

    Having assessed everything, I was surprised to see this was probably the best option. Get about 8-10 cities going and hammer the great person points and get those archaeologists out early."

    So it should be 8-10, not 4-6?
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It depends on your level. 4-6 on prince -king

    I will be updatng the guide soon, we are all still learning. I will clarify that 8-10 is deity. I will likely say do not bother with art museums unless you want variety at the price of turns.

    Also that number may require an additional city or two for trading. The city doe s not need a district but it is needed for long distance trade.

    Pericles is as strong as gorgo but more mid game... It not hard when playing a CS game to get 5 suzerains. Thats +25% culture for Pericles.
     
  9. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    Art Museums or not depends on what the AI is doing with great people and whether or not you have a free generic great work slot (from your capitol or the great merchant that grants you 2 slots).

    If the capitol gets filled with a holy relic from a goody hut, I tend to build 1 art museum so I can place and trade art. It seems worth it when you are talking 1 city out of 10 or so.
    If you are playing with hyper great culture points* and your opponents aren't pushing culture, 2 or 3 art museums might be appropriate. It is relatively easy to theme several art museums if you are getting all the great artists. The tradeoff is art is worth less tourism than artifacts, but late cities, or low production cities might be best suited for art rather than having to build the archaeologist. With that said, I haven't built more than 2 art museums in a very long time. And usually it's 0 or 1 art museum.

    *Hyper great culture points can happen if you are playing Kongo (double points), Russia (lavras are dirt cheap and provide points), or theaters/acropolis first strategies, particularly when combined with Stockholm suzerain and indifferent AIs (no Kongo or Russia as opponents).
     
  10. Wr4ith

    Wr4ith Chieftain

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    I wonder about one thing: Is my domestic pool copied for every other player and they "pick up" tourists separately, or do i have one domestic tourists pool and everyone pick them from this single one?
     
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  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  12. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    Some notes about artifact theming may have been mentioned elsewhere, but I haven't seen them:

    1) The bug mentioned in the guide where shipwrecks disappear - I haven't seen this. Is it gone?

    2) There is a clear bug where the initial choice screen will say that you have discovered an artifact from era xxx (classical, medieval, renaissance, industrial) but if one of the choices is barbarians, the result will be an ancient era artifact, whether you picked barbarians or the civ/city-state option. It's only when you don't get a choice (the result of somebody clearing a barbarian encampment without a battle) or when both choices are civs/city-states that the era matters.

    3) As a result of #2, the vast majority of land artifacts will be ancient era because most involve barbarians. Most shipwrecks will not as the techs for seafaring come later and barbarian involvement is rarer. If you have limited number of museums and want to maximize theming, avoid the shipwrecks. They are, however, the low-hanging fruit post-cultural heritage and if you have enough museums, you can theme non-ancient museums. If you find yourself wanting non-ancient era artifacts, look to the shipwrecks.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think the shipwreck is gone
    2-3 are useful, did not know about the land thing, tx.
    Shipwreks seem to lag 3-4 eras behind current. I get gret theming off yhem if I discover in the same era.
    OFC england does not care about any of this, so englan gets a speed jump and more theming than other races that may make her nearer 1st tier
    Pericles is definately 1st tier now imo, especially playing a good CS game
     
  14. paulthebug

    paulthebug Chieftain

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    Hiya, I'm thinking.
    What if I play a cultural game as if I'm aiming for SV? Just beeline for Radio & Computer, spamming only Seaside Resorts, without even building a single theater square? I wonder would it speed up or slow down the victory time? What do you think?
     
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  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Well you will need eiffel... sure I imagine you can do it with enough seaside real estate... but that's a lot. It will definitely work if being aggressive
    If being non violent then on lower levels it will be fine. On higher levels there is a lot of seaside taken by the AI and their culture defense gets high very fast.

    I guess it depends a bit on map, often with continents you will struggle to find enough unless aggressively settling but settling using the appeal lens really does help. I had just discarded it because typically on continents it just does not give enough but saying that I have not concentrated on such. Great thought, I'll give it a try
     
  16. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    You could also do this as China or France by adding in tourism from wonders and chateaus/wall spam. But like Victoria, I'm skeptical this works particularly well at higher difficulty levels (and ampitheaters will make that go faster as well).

    Edit to add - just finished a turn 124 cultural win as France on Prince by doing theaters (mostly) first and supplementing with wonders. Only built ampitheaters in the theater districts. Printing was the only critical tech and I basically ignored all +science and +culture cards as you don't make it very far into either tree. Didn't build a single chateau as I knew I wasn't going to make it to flight.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    great ... 124, I am impressed. How many cities did you have? (6 seems like a good number) You must have been running projects to get those writers. Did you have divine spark?

    What was your tourism showing at the top of the screen at the end and what was the highest enemy domestic at the end?

    I have added a short paragraph for the strategy - "Going Short" and a thanks at the end
    I will have to rewrite the guide soon, make it clearer and move the mechanics perhaps.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  18. walkerjks

    walkerjks Chieftain

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    6 cities, though I only had 5 great writers (and had built the great library, so I really only needed 4 for book slots). 122 tourism/turn. Needed 16 tourists (I did pick my opponents, as I usually do - this, along with ability to complete wonders, is the part that doesn't scale well to higher difficulties).

    My thoughts are you can do this with 4 cities. 1 campus before theater (for great library and a base of science) and then 3 of the following to be built after theaters:

    entertainment (Colesseum)
    holy site (Oracle)
    encampment (Terracotta)
    harbor (Colossus/Great Lighthouse)

    Petra and Pyramids were built (so terrain matters). Stonehenge is likely an option at lower difficultly levels.

    In addition to paying attention to city and district placement to make sure you meet the requirements of the wonders, the biggest challenge is exploring enough to find all the AIs.

    As usual, conquering 1 close neighbor (or at least taking their capitol) simplifies things (getting an extra partially developed city and getting a possibly getting a completed district).

    France clearly has the advantage in tourism/turn from wonders. China can crank out the wonders (particularly after Great Pyramids is built). I suspect France is marginally better suited for this, but I don't know.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Just played a deity short game and there is just no way you can win at that level with just writers unless you took out the civ thats taking all the writing. I got 6 cities by turn 60 peacefully and all had ampitheatres by 100 but in essense turns 120-140 I was about even with tojo then took over but it took till 220 to win. That was with what I would consider a perfect non violent start. Such a good start Ill try the science way
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I tried to win a peaceful seaside only game on deity, I failed all 3 times. It is much harder to get the real estate at deity and the culture push is much harder and cristo much much harder.

    I dropped to emporer and had a great starting point for seaside amd managed to pull it off peacefully... Significantly helped by a non expanding aztec. Producing over 2000 tourism a turn just from seaside resorts
    A couple of points.

    Eiffel and cristo are both needed so do not forget them, cristo is popular and in the culture tree.
    I had to build 1 theater district to remove 4 ruins from seasides. As england have 6 slot museums.
    Wherever I built seasides I planted trees behind, these really help up tourism. Even my capital was seaside resorts and trees, most farms and mines destroyed. That causes negative housing but who cares.
     

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