Culture Group: Americans aren't American...

[Minuteman]

Originally posted by DarkwingGT
....I disagree, my father is Japanese, my mother is Polish.

Hey, did you hear the one about the Polish Samurai? .....nah, just kidding:crazyeyes

Actually, you make some good points, but I'm afraid your argument has fallen on deaf ears.

 

[PCHighway]

I've been reading the preceding posts with alallegiance to none. And I think it's safe to say I have an answer. We're all *******s, me being an american, I am a no-culture *******, not to mention a capitalist pig. The non americans are *******s who, (if they like it or not) are fast becoming non-culture captialist pigs.

 

[PCHighway]

EXAMPLE
Anyone who can see this page is on the internet, an american invention...... On a windows or mac. (another american invention) .......Talking about an american made game..................... But seriously, I agree about Europe being great. And to fit all the great European Civ's on A game with only 16 civs................ well thats impossible. They would have to make a game called European Civilizations...................... Like wise with the ancient civilizations. And you have to consider they wanted to spread out the civs through the 7 continents. (Why else would they put the Zulu?)Besides, Sid has more than enough money I, dont think thats behind why the U.S.A. is in the game. :rocket2:

 

[Ethics]

I do find it ironic that most Europeans point to our materialism as lack of culture.

Our materialism is from the Europeans. We were so disgusted with you Europeans after the conclusion of WWI that we had no choice but to drink/buy ourselves happy. You just destroyed our belief that we could solve any problem and the "progressivsm"

That said, yes Germans are/were an intregal part of our society. Fortunately, we had WWII to "patriotize" them into Americans =)

I'll tell you one thing, I think us Americans can be called ridiculous at times. I also think you Euros share that same trait with us.

With that said, Ill give my view on the US Education system. I truely went to a "melting pot" school. Asians, Mexicans, Blacks, Whites, Yellows, Red, whatever. Sure, I will say this, I think a lot of indoctrination went on there, but not of this extreme patriotism you see after 9/11. If some of you have watched OReilly after the last few months, its the schools who attack and despise any patriotism we want to show. Our teachers arent the problem. Our schools arent the problem. The kids arent the problems(well just a little). Its the administrations of our school systems. Theyre corrupt, and have noone watching what they do. I went to public school in Houston, TX. We had some of the biggest idiots running HISD there and the schools just go down the hill. I went to one of the smaller(better if you want to call it that) school systems in Houston. Cy-Fair. We had the same kind of idiot administrations. We also have a problem with text books in this country. Lies of all sorts are put in them. This problem needs to be adressed as well.

I now goto the University of Mississippi. While the administration here is.... Ill let you guess... the school is pretty good none the less. We arent required here to learn "American history" but we have European history required. I took the two 100 US history classes, just so when I took the European courses I could compare them. Were a lot alike guys. Perhaps the only real difference that seperates us is us Americans had two oceans to isolate us from our nearest "meddling" neighbor. Go take a US history class if your a European. You might realize were not as fat and stupid as you make us. Consider your environment around you and look how much "American Culture" your subjected to. We get a little of yall too. You'd think yall guys would realize your just as much hated Westeners as we are.

Well in conclusion, how long have the French been waiting for Napolean to bring back the Empire?

 

[Supercilious]

Historical fact: America (the U.S., and before that the 13 colonies) began developing its unique culture in the 1720's with the religious Great Awakening. It was a separate people by 1776, and by the 1830's had established its own art, music, etc,

The problem is not the past - it is the future.

America is now being subjected to a massive legal - and illegal - immigrant invasion. This had gone on continuously since 1965, and never has immigration gone on that long before with a long break for assimilation.

It continues even now despite the atrocity of 9/11 which was due in large part to America's wide open borders.

There are nine million or more illegal aliens in this country who never even had so much as a health exam. They almost all come from the Third World where ideas of Western Culture - ideas of tolerance, democracy, and freedom of thought - do not exist.

Worse, only 15% of legal aliens are allowed to come from Europe, so we will see even more of people whose traditions are Islamic intolerance, or the petty dictatorships of Latin America.

Culture? I'll give American culture another fifty years. Then sadly America will fragment into pieces and look like the Balkans. Too bad.

 

[Ethics]

I'll agree with you there Super, having lived in Texas for the last 17yrs. When I first moved there you wouldn't dare even think we'd have billboards in nothing but Spanish. Now its the norm. Our classrooms with what I can only assume is some type of "cultural pluralism" refuse to socialize Hispanics into Americans. My mom is a kindergarden teacher and subbed for one of the Spanish teachers. Whats the pledge of alliegance? We don't do that! American flag!? Hah! English in our classroom? You must be crazy!

9/11 was a brutal awakening, but I don't think Americans got the point. Exleast when the Germans refused to learn the language, we had a war to turn them to our side of the spectrum.

 

[cegman]

Originally posted by Troyens


Our public education system IS a joke. Especially in the urban areas.

I agree European education is almost 10x better in the slums than most of our upperclass schools

I should know I am middle class and learn more from tv and europeans on the internet than in school

 

[MortalMichael]

Nope... Americans are like a giant puzzle of this countries:

ESPESIALLY: Holland, England and Spain.

and furthermore: Portugal, and... ehr... more countries


I dunno, maybe America aint no real country... more like... A PLANET THAT BELONGS TO MARTIANS!!!!



------------------------------------------------------------

dont be rude, just be a Martian

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by Supercilious
America is now being subjected to a massive legal - and illegal - immigrant invasion. This had gone on continuously since 1965, and never has immigration gone on that long before with a long break for assimilation.

Since 1965?!

Are you not aware of the tens of millions who came before then?
The entirety of the 19th century saw over 100 million immigrants, with nary a pause for any assimilation of any kind. It did not stop in the 20th century, either. O, but wait - they were mostly white people, that's different.

So many aliens with no health exams? So what? If they stayed whence they came, they may never get a health exam. At least in the US, they have a hope for a better life. You seem to think the US should exclude a quality life from others.

The US will not crumble in the face of more immigration - that will be a source of strength, as it always has been. What would be more dangerous to our society would be to close the borders entirely. Don't panic, you will not lose your white, western culture. I think whites still account for 80% of the population.

Ethics, sorry you don't feel comfortable with spanish speakers. Why on earth should they be "socialized" into americans? American culture is not some stagnant thing that can be put in a book and taught! They will slowly change to become more americanized, and america will slowly, slightly change to be more hispanicized. Neither can fairly be called good or bad, it just is. Do you speak another language? Imagine if the spanish speakers took over texas and made your kids speak spanish in school. You might get very upset about that - why should the spanish speakers react any differently? If you answer "because they came to america," then maybe you forget what america is about.

Many of european descent saw their parents or grandparents gladly abandon the old culture and push the kids into the mainstream. Now the kids and grandkids complain of a lack of roots. The connection is obvious.

 

[Jandor]

hmm. this is interesting. but we all know, that actually a secret organization called 'Majestic 12' is pulling the strings, they blackmail people using a man-made disease called the 'grey death' then they when there infected they use the cure to bribe them. they've got into power all over the world and operate openly in many countrys with cyborgs and robots patrolling the streets. in citys like paris. and terrorists groups like the NSF and silohette. (spelt wrong). try and stop them.

Almost none of you will have any idea what the F**k im talking about, just go out buy Deus Ex, and play it till you collapse from lack of food, speaking of Deus Ex i should be playing it some more

 

[Ethics]

Because if they arent socialized into Americans then they arent Americans, they are MEXICANS!!!

I do not and Im sure millions of Americans agree with me, the US becoming like Mexico to the south. Socialization is extremely important in any culture.

Why is it so bad to ask people who come to this country to learn our ways and our language? Noone is stopping them from their past traditions, but if you want to compete in this country you need to learn English. Do some math, how costly do you think it is to print information for two languages? How stressful a financial burdan do you think it is for this influx of immigrants to demand that their children be taught completely different curriculum in our schools? If your so gungho about this, why don't you start complaining to the Saudis that they require our men in uniform discard their religious icons and such?

Immigration is a part of this nation, but socializing these same immigrants into Americans is even greater. If we dont, they arent Americans, they are some other nationality.

I never said Im uncomfortable with Spanish, Im uncomfortable with someone moving in next door that dosent give a damn about my country and would leech off us without taking the time to become one of us.

 

[EmperorSnefix]

I never said Im uncomfortable with Spanish, Im uncomfortable with someone moving in next door that dosent give a damn about my country and would leech off us without taking the time to become one of us.

I completly agree. If you are going to leech off the country, you could at least try to be part of it.

Wait.... WHAT?!?!

 

[Sodak]

Originally posted by Ethics
... If your so gungho about this, why don't you start complaining to the Saudis that they require our men in uniform discard their religious icons and such?

What would that have to do with anything?

Anyway, if you ask adults to give up their culture, you will never be satisfied with the results. If, on the other hand, you learn patience, you may find that their children end up very americanized versions of the people who irritate you so. The next generation may be indistinguishable from your own grandchildren. It takes time, just as it did with the european immigrants who came before them.

And I would bet they do give a damn about your country. They moved there because it offered the chance for a better life. You can bet they appreciate the opportunity, even if they don't instantly drop their entire being to become stereotypical americans. How many hispanic youth have joined the US military? Is that not giving a damn? How many strive to improve their communities with the express intent of ensuring that they do not become Mexico-continued? I think you misjudge hispanics... Being different from you does not mean they reject you or your society.

 

[muppet]

Originally posted by Sodak

What would that have to do with anything?

Anyway, if you ask adults to give up their culture, you will never be satisfied with the results. If, on the other hand, you learn patience, you may find that their children end up very americanized versions of the people who irritate you so. The next generation may be indistinguishable from your own grandchildren. It takes time, just as it did with the european immigrants who came before them.

And I would bet they do give a damn about your country. They moved there because it offered the chance for a better life. You can bet they appreciate the opportunity, even if they don't instantly drop their entire being to become stereotypical americans. How many hispanic youth have joined the US military? Is that not giving a damn? How many strive to improve their communities with the express intent of ensuring that they do not become Mexico-continued? I think you misjudge hispanics... Being different from you does not mean they reject you or your society.

Good Point!

My father will always be Chinese. Don't even go there. But, he won't live forever. However, 1/2 of my siblings were born American and 1/2 born Canadian. We are hardly Chinese, and our children will be even less so. So, his migration legacy will lead to many very patriotic citizens in the future.

I will always be an American to my Canadian friends because I'm too vocal, and completely unafraid to be thought of as rude to 'call it as it is.'

I will always be a Canadian to my American friends because I'm too neutral on too many 'issues', and appear (on the surface at least) to be less expressive and 'outgoing'.

I will always be a 'banana' (yellow on the outside, white on the inside), to my Chinese friends because I have 'white' cultural values and exhibit 'white' social behaviours. Not to mention that 99% of my friends are 'white', and 9 out of 10 relationships I've had are with 'white' females.

But no matter how others stereotype me, I am born American and have lived in Canada for almost 15 years now. Any American or Canadian that does not believe my loyalty and spirit belong to freedom and democracy and the well being of either country needs to insert a brigher lightbulb in their head.

So, nobody thinks I am truly part of any of them. Maybe I'll move to Mars next.

Call me what you will, but if you take away my right to communicate with my parents in Chinese, or my Chinese New Years, you'll lose an appreciative, productive, contributing and patriotic citizen!

Of course we care! Heck, I remember growing up, the reason I had almost no Chinese friends was because my parents wanted me to be American in every way possible! There will always be bad apples. Don't kill the orchard because of a few bad apples.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

After untold hours of deliberation I've decided to move this thread to the off-topic section. This isn't remotely Civ-related anymore.

 

[Schee]

There are nine million or more illegal aliens in this country who never even had so much as a health exam. They almost all come from the Third World where ideas of Western Culture - ideas of tolerance, democracy, and freedom of thought - do not exist.

9 million for 268 million of american people... that makes 3%... I don't think thats very much compared to the situation in France : 5 million for 61 million of French people and that makes 8% !

And I would remember you americans that most of people sent by Europe to america were criminals or prisoners...

 

[allhailIndia]

What happened to the Land of the Free where dreams are fulfilled??

Immigration is a part of any civilized society, only some have to face it a little more than others. Especially if you a re a rich land with vast open spaces. Has'nt America been enriched by the numerous cultures or is it just a myth??

 

[Sodak]

allhailIndia, yes, the US has been very enriched by immigration. That is the one primary factor in making america different from europe, in my opinion. It has never been a smooth process, tho.

As you see from the reactions of some, new foreigners are a problem, the cause of social ills, lower property values, etc etc etc. This has always been the case, even of the european immigrants, not just the mexicans.

When the Italians came by the millions, people lamented the downfall of american values, o how this society would be ruined by these garlic-breath oddities who spoke a funny language. Now Italians are so ingrained in american society, English customs and foods are more foreign to most americans.

Millions of scandanavians immigrated to the great lakes area. They were decried as blockheads, stodgy morons who weren't worth anything but cheap labor. Now many of the region's people proudly bear this heritage.

Similar tales could be told for any group of "others" who move in. The locals hate them, but their descendants end up mixing with them.

To those who so fear immigrants or just wish they would go somewhere else - Do you really believe that US society is so fragile that it can't survive yet another wave of immigrants? Get real. US society and culture are very dynamic, strong things. The US has a very cohesive society - many differences abound, but because there is always discussion about what is changing, progress is always made toward a stronger whole. It goes in fits, but it works.

 

[Rich]

Originally posted by rmsharpe


Come on! If it weren't for the World Wars of the first half of the 20th century, Germany would be just like Italy or Spain -- not in Civ3.

Erm....

Is it just me that thinks the italians are in Civ3.
Romans = Italians.

Please say if ignorance is bliss.

Cheers

 

[Flatlander Fox]

Where I lived in Nebraska, there is a high concentration of Mexicans living in a town next to me. A newspaper article was published in this town, and I will deliver to you the gist of it:


"The immigrants, legal and otherwise, have more or less invaded our country. They refuse to adopt "American" ways, and even speak their language openly on our streets, with total disregard for our confusion.
They take our entry level jobs, robbing many of our young people the chance to start out and become productive citizens.
Loitering is common with these people, and many a saturday night is wasted among these people standing and sitting around town."


Reading this, you have to wonder about the guy who wrote it, and what kind of idiot that he was...

The article was written in 1911, about the enormous influx of German immigrants settling in Nebraska.

The editor of the newspaper, who was tiring of the continous complaints about the Mexican population, published it without warning, and a little footnote at the bottom. The results were favorable, and it put things in perspective.

My Great-Grandparents were part of those people, and my grandparents still spoke German, but not as much. My Father and I both spoke no German at all, but I learned it while living in Germany.

The great melting pot of America will eventually win out, but it just takes time. And more importantly, acceptance.


P.S. To Schee: We have taken the "criminals" and religious zealots, and generally unwanted people from all walks of life. And we are glad to keep taking them, as they are what makes America great.

And if you were to ask somebody in a Third World country whether he would like to move to America or France, I think I know where they would choose.

And your percentage is not as high as Germany's, so before bragging on your country's greatness, find something that they are great in .

Like judging figure skaters .