Culture Victory Build Order?

[bahamuto]

So I am playing on Immortal and I have beaten it previously as a science victory and a domination victory which seem simple enough. Now I want to try to beat it with a culture victory and my question is what is the general order in which to build things.

I have been playing as Greece/Gorgo:

I'll tell you what I have tried. First I tried building 5 or 6 cities and having them all build Commercial Hubs for the trade routes, and then go for the acropolis. I think the problem with that is that it takes too long for my culture to be that big, and I'm not getting any Great Writers because by the time the amphitheaters are built the others civs are already pulling in a bunch of great writer points.

Next I tried going for the acropolis first , then the amphitheater , then commercial hub. However then my cities don't grow fast enough , and it takes a bunch of time to build other things I need such as industrial districts and so forth.

What do you find works the best?

 

[leon_daking]

I think the most obvious way would be to go for a standard sim-city game with culture victory thrown in there. Since acropolis is half cost and doesn't count towards district limit you should be able to complete them shortly before/after your commercial hubs and just do what you normally do (get industrials with aoe, build campus where possible). Stay peaceful but have a good army to avoid declarations.

 

[Victoria]

With gorgo, KILL, you get culture for kills and race up.
You will seriously struggle for any GP because the AI just buts them and rarely uses them. It is just stupid.

Instead concentrate on getting culture high with acropolis amd get to archaeological museums ASAP. The AI leaves them pretty much. Get your science Gpp up and pass on every scientist but take Mary Leakey. Race for online communities and computers and you have won. The AI cannot keep up after about turn 120-150. Use theatre projects.

 

[WideCoast]

^I'd believe that.

I usually just play and then it falls on my lap. I guess you can win it with just GP, Seaside Resorts or Artifacts, but doing them all makes it come faster than you might think, even if your "behind" when you "start". I'm no expert on it, but with computers and the bonus cards, which increases tourism you should catch up pretty fast and I like it, because it's not like just building a district nd waiting for GP's to pop up, but you can send archaelogists around the world collecting artifacts and do other stuff aswell that works towards your victory.

 

[Soffacet]

As others have advised, the best way to arrive at culture victory is to just grow as efficiently as possible, the same way you would anyways. You need some combination of Broadcast Centers, Museums, and Theatre Project spam. Seaside Resorts, Naturalists, and certain expensive Wonders are stretch goals that help as well. To do that you need a strong core of cities. You need Power Plants and Neighborhoods and tier 3 government as quickly as possible. Eventually, you probably need to conquer or settle new cities for nearly the sole purpose of additional great work slots.

In my most recent culture win (as Russia), I settled 5 initial cities, settled 1 more later on, conquered Greece with faith-purchased Cossacks for 5 more, never built a single Research Lab, and ended the game with >70 great works and >1500 base tourism/turn. Most of the great works were generated once I started to spam Theatre Projects in my initial cities.

So basically, you need need everything, which means that undermining your general growth to chase early GWAMs is usually counter-productive. Russia and Kongo can get headstarts on generating GWAMs, which helps a bit, but is not necessary.

 

[jollywonk]

So basically, you need need everything, which means that undermining your general growth to chase early GWAMs is usually counter-productive. Russia and Kongo can get headstarts on generating GWAMs, which helps a bit, but is not necessary.

I'll second this - you don't really need to change your early build orders around to go after a cultural victory. It's more about your mid to late game tech and civic paths, as well as creating enough cities and Theatre Squares to house Great Work slots. And then there's the nuances like getting your appeal up on coastal tiles so you can build seaside resorts (holy sites, theatre squares, and entertainment districts raise surrounding appeal, try to build some 1 tile from coast). The wonders are nice-to-haves, not required.

Especially on multiplayer, one of the things I would think about is how you'll defend yourself when you are going Computers and your neighbors are going Tanks. Right after Computers, you'll want to get to Chemistry and AT Crews, possibly upgrading already-built Spearman/Pikeman units.

I like playing as Russia and getting low-investment GWAM points, but you can be just as successful by running theatre projects and gold or faith-buying great people to fill your great work slots just-in-time, as they are built and become available.

 

[DrCron]

In my last Deity cultural win I found that I could only get 2 great artists, even though no AI was going for them, simply because I took too long to build my theatre squares. So I'd recommend to not delay the acropolis, especially since it's half the price anyway. It shouldn't take so long to get amphitheaters and great writer points. Maybe your early expansion is too slow?

In general in most of my games it seems easier to get the theming bonus in archaeological museums. Also the AI rarely goes for ruins, so you can steal at least 1 from each AI (before they get angry). If you did an early conquest and have a large territory, you should have enough for at least 3 arch museums. I've never got a theme bonus in an art museum, so don't sweat it.

B-line the techs for Cristo Redentor and Eiffel Tower. Those 2 combined will give you many good resorts and speed up your victory. If Alan Turing is around, you might want to try to get him, to get computers faster. Also b-line the techs that give you civics that boost your tourism (there's 3 of them: one for trade routes, another one for works of music, and one more for works of art iirc). Even without the civic boost, trade routes give you 25% extra tourism initially. So the moment you start generating tourism (with early wonders or something like that) try to get foreign trade routes (at least one per AI), and don't waste them on city states. Also try to get open borders. If you offer them the moment you meet a new AI, they will accept.

Don't worry if it looks like you have too little tourism initially, once you get computers and those 3 civics (plus some archeological museums with theme bonus) it will go up VERY quickly. In the meantime get your acropolis everywhere and try to get some great artists/writers/musicians.

If an AI is doing well, you might have to send your spies to sabotage their spaceports so they don't get the science victory before you win.

 

[Japper007]

Im gonna go against the others here and actually recommend rushing Culture districts, particularly if you play as Greece or Japan so you get them half price. 6 cities or more, all with Theatre squares is enough to deny even Deity AI most of the GWAM's. I recently had a culture victory as Gorgo where I didnt even build archeology museums, national parks or seaside resorts. With Russia you can start doing the same even earlier, just go into astrology early and build Lavra's everywhere (they give GWAM points in addition to the Prophet ones).
It doesn't matter if my total tourism sucks, if no AI can even generate any to begin with.

Also a fun strat if you get outpaced in the tourism game in late game; go steal all the top culture civs cities! You can thank them for their hard work by just taking all their artifacts and great work and adding them to your ever growing pile.

 

[WideCoast]

Also a fun strat if you get outpaced in the tourism game in late game; go steal all the top culture civs cities! You can thank them for their hard work by just taking all their artifacts and great work and adding them to your ever growing pile.

Btw, is there a way to check where they are? I guess most I'v been stealing usually comes from Capitol, but would be fun to just snipe a city with lot's of them, instead of taking them all.

 

[CultureManiac]

In a recent Rome deity culture victory, I didn't even build much culture myself. I just stole it. Capture cities with the best wonders, take their museums and works of art. Target civs with the highest culture first. Build culture through your military. Ancient Rome and the British Empire looted their way to the top, so why not you?

 

[Victoria]

Btw, is there a way to check where they are?

Nope. tourism lens shows nada

I suspect like in Civ 5 they shift them out given warning as I have captured culture capitals with nothing in them

 

[WideCoast]

Nope. tourism lens shows nada

I suspect like in Civ 5 they shift them out given warning as I have captured culture capitals with nothing in them

Sweet. Well that explains why it's not always the capitol that gives you the 20 GWorks

 

[Mr. Shadows]

The opening turns are pretty much the same no matter what victory I want. I just finished a deity CV with Teddy. I made it a point to get a couple theater districts early to get some culture and GWAM points rolling, but I don't stop everything to build them, I take care of my infrastructure and economy at the same time. Eventually (almost) every city will have a theater district but there's no great hurry. Build them in between commercial hubs, harbors, workers and everything else you need to get your empire going. Expanding is almost always more important than early districts though. Personally I like to have at least 10 cities (or more!) by the time I hit the rennaisance. You might not need that many, but it's better to have too many than too few. Only a couple wonders are worth building but ALL of them are worth capturing.
Beyond that there is a GM that gives a tourism bonus to civs you have a trade route to that I found very useful. There is another GP (can't remember what kind) that gives a boost to campus districts that I missed. There are several policies that boost tourism. One is for trade routes, one boosts works of music and there's at least one other that I can't remember. Keep in mind that the Eiffel Tower and certain GEs boost appeal which can enable you to build more seaside resorts.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

There is another GP (can't remember what kind) that gives a boost to campus districts that I missed.

That's Mary Leakey. Atomic Era, Artifacts give 300% Tourism, earn 350 Science for every Artifact in that city. Though for a CV I'd guess she comes way too late, and you probably won't have as many Great Scientist points to get her unless you focus on them through projects.

I'd guess the best way to get a CV would be to go for Artifacts and, if that isn't enough, build Eiffel Tower and Seaside Resorts/National Parks through all your empire. Of course, barring the Relic strategy (which don't feel like a CV for me anyway)

 

[Victoria]

The huge issue with diety is that the AI races through to the modern age before you catch up. You just miss sooo many great people. Still try and get some BUT if you read the culture guide it makes clear that by far archaelogical museums are the mainstay and that the AI pretty much ignores these.
Without Mary Leakey and England each museum will give you 54 tourism themed and 10 of these is a lot.
Mary leakey just goves 300% of BASE artifact vale which is the same as saying double. Just like Englands double.
Americas double is more powerful, like computers.
Greeces advantage is being able to race up the culture tree faster so more chance of cristo, not necessary but useful.
If you can get christo/eiffel then great but in essence get seaside restorts to bolster this 540 and you are there.
If a religious civ like Russia or Kongo then artifacts bolster this a lot if played well, if lucky you can won much faster.

The key thing is in Deity you just do not get many GP so have to rely on other strats. If you can survive and get to 150 you should eventually win as long as you keep an eye on the opposition and deal with them is a variety of ways.

The guide explains it more, what surprised me analyzing it was ypu do not have to trade with everyone.

 

[Forster]

Out of curiosity, what buildings are for great musical works? I know the Bolshoi ballet, and I think the palace can have one.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

^iirc there is the broadcast tower for a slot, and I guess the Sydney opera for x more.

The issue, same as civ, is that you get musician way earlier than you can slot them...

 

[Swissy]

Out of curiosity, what buildings are for great musical works? I know the Bolshoi ballet, and I think the palace can have one.

Broadcast Center, the third theater district building. Also, Bolshoi Theatre(1 slot), Broadway(2 slots) and Sydney Opera House(3 slots).

 

[Browd]

Broadcast Center (Theater District building) has 1 music slot (as does the American replacement, the Film Studio).

Besides Bolshoi, there are two other world wonders with music slots:

Broadway - 2 music slots and 1 writing slot
Sydney Opera House - 3 music slots

Also, if you grab the Renaissance Era Great Merchant Giovanni de Medici, you can get a bank that has two slots that can hold any Great Work (like the Palace), including music.

 

[Victoria]

What wonders and GP are relevant to each culture type can be found in the culture guide also.