Culture Victory Requirements

[chicorbeef]

Hi all,

So it's been a while since the requirement for a Culture Victory was changed to include building the Citizen Earth Protocol, which requires two Tier 3 Ideology tenets, being influential with all civs, and having an ideology with a content population.

The reason, if I recall correctly, was that it was supposedly possible to get a Culture Victory very early and win the game prematurely, and to make Culture Victories happen around the same time as Diplomatic/Scientific victories.

I think, however, that the two Tier 3 Ideology tenet requirement could be removed entirely at this point. I'd like to know everyone else's opinion on this.

• It's pretty difficult to win a Culture Victory super early if the competition still has a solid economy. It varies on difficulty, but most civs just generally have higher Culture than whatever Tourism per turn you can output by this time, especially with the massive Tourism penalty you'd get from a large empire if you played aggressively, so an early victory normally has to be deliberately focused on with smart usage of Trade Routes and timing of Historic Events and Concert Tours.
• Even if you do get influential for a time, that's not a guaranteed win, because the CEP costs 6000, and it's easy to lose influential status in the time you build it, especially if a civ happens to bulb a Writer or something.
• It's hard to get two Tier 3 tenets before the Atomic Era at least. Realistically speaking, for me at least, the route to Culture Victory almost always ends up in rushing Telecommunications ASAP because there is a big tourism spike on that tech between the National Visitor Center and CN Tower.
• Not requiring T3 tenets opens up other policy trees and strategies to win, which I see as a plus. Autocracy is the only ideology that has two T3 tenets that both directly boost Tourism, so for Freedom/Order, you'd have to pick filler tenets which is not something I'm particularly fond of. Actually, none of Order's T3 tenets actually boost Tourism, while free techs and stronger internal trade routes do help, it would be nice if I could avoid that altogether and perhaps focus on finishing Rationalism or even Artistry or such.
• It would make the AI's imminent Culture Victory a bigger threat I feel, since you don't have so much time to put it off.

 

[Kim Dong Un]

You'd have to test CV on this newest patch before coming to any conclusions, but I can see a case for your argument.

 

[Stalker0]

Hi all,

So it's been a while since the requirement for a Culture Victory was changed to include building the Citizen Earth Protocol, which requires two Tier 3 Ideology tenets, being influential with all civs, and having an ideology with a content population.

The reason, if I recall correctly, was that it was supposedly possible to get a Culture Victory very early and win the game prematurely, and to make Culture Victories happen around the same time as Diplomatic/Scientific victories.

I think, however, that the two Tier 3 Ideology tenet requirement could be removed entirely at this point. I'd like to know everyone else's opinion on this.

• It's pretty difficult to win a Culture Victory super early if the competition still has a solid economy. It varies on difficulty, but most civs just generally have higher Culture than whatever Tourism per turn you can output by this time, especially with the massive Tourism penalty you'd get from a large empire if you played aggressively, so an early victory normally has to be deliberately focused on with smart usage of Trade Routes and timing of Historic Events and Concert Tours.
• Even if you do get influential for a time, that's not a guaranteed win, because the CEP costs 6000, and it's easy to lose influential status in the time you build it, especially if a civ happens to bulb a Writer or something.
• It's hard to get two Tier 3 tenets before the Atomic Era at least. Realistically speaking, for me at least, the route to Culture Victory almost always ends up in rushing Telecommunications ASAP because there is a big tourism spike on that tech between the National Visitor Center and CN Tower.
• Not requiring T3 tenets opens up other policy trees and strategies to win, which I see as a plus. Autocracy is the only ideology that has two T3 tenets that both directly boost Tourism, so for Freedom/Order, you'd have to pick filler tenets which is not something I'm particularly fond of. Actually, none of Order's T3 tenets actually boost Tourism, while free techs and stronger internal trade routes do help, it would be nice if I could avoid that altogether and perhaps focus on finishing Rationalism or even Artistry or such.
• It would make the AI's imminent Culture Victory a bigger threat I feel, since you don't have so much time to put it off.

the one downside though...it literally wouldn’t be a CV anymore. While cultural has some influence on tourism, musician bombs account for a lot

 

[chicorbeef]

the one downside though...it literally wouldn’t be a CV anymore. While cultural has some influence on tourism, musician bombs account for a lot

I mean, it's closer to the culture victory in BNW and in VP before this, and it's not like doesn't play a role, it makes your historical events and trade route tourism more effective. Besides, Hotels/Stadiums etc. directly convert into Tourism.

 

[a3kov]

Starting with the august versions (where tourism got a big boost) it is indeed possible to become influential with everybody relatively early (around industrial-modern era, maybe earlier with Sacred Sites). So you may end up in a situation where you are just waiting for policies.