Culture

[JonoLith]

Allow me to apologize upfront if this is well trodden turf. I've looked over Arioch's Analyst site (Big Props) and I'm not finding too much information on exactly how Culture works in the game.

My mind started sparking when I saw this screen shot.

We can see that this is the city screen, with the Empire Bar above it. A few questions/thoughts.

1) Is it the cities own culture that is responsible for filling the hexagon responsible for border growth, or does the empire culture effect that as well? My assumption is that it is the city that is solely responsible for this growth.

2) When the borders do expand, will it be every pink highlighted hex that expands? There are other screenshots of an earlier game where only one hex is highlighted. Is it possible that as the game goes on cities begin capturing more then one hex at a

3) In the Empire Bar, in pink, are the numbers 36/1315 (+20). It is clear that the 20 is the total collected amount of culture all your cities are giving out a turn. It is also clear that there is 36 of 1315 culture collected. What happens when you collect 1315 culture? Is that the amount of culture required to purchase the next social policy? Does this mean you are essentially "Researching" social policies the way you research technology?

4) Is it possible to spend empire culture to expand a cities borders, or is it only possible to do that with gold? If it is the case that you cannot spend culture to expand borders, then city culture is only passive?

Anyway, there is a few questions there. Let the speculationatroning commence!

 

[Thyrwyn]

My understanding is as follows:

1) Only city culture determines city border growth.

2) Azazell (the very helpful guy who posted all those screenshots) indicated that the multiple pink hexes were the result of a bug in the preview build. Cities only expand one hex at a time.

3) You are correct - that is the culture required to purchase the next Social Policy.

4) You can only "spend" culture on Social Policies. As per #1 above, only the culture produced in each individual city is used to expand the borders of that city. Gold can be used anywhere, of course.

 

[stealth_nsk]

1) Is it the cities own culture that is responsible for filling the hexagon responsible for border growth, or does the empire culture effect that as well? My assumption is that it is the city that is solely responsible for this growth.

Yes, city is responsible for its growth.

2) When the borders do expand, will it be every pink highlighted hex that expands? There are other screenshots of an earlier game where only one hex is highlighted. Is it possible that as the game goes on cities begin capturing more then one hex at a

It should gather 1 tile at a time, probably it shows tiles which could be gathered.

3) In the Empire Bar, in pink, are the numbers 36/1315 (+20). It is clear that the 20 is the total collected amount of culture all your cities are giving out a turn. It is also clear that there is 36 of 1315 culture collected. What happens when you collect 1315 culture? Is that the amount of culture required to purchase the next social policy? Does this mean you are essentially "Researching" social policies the way you research technology?

For techs you pick tech first and then research it, for civics you get culture first and then spend it.

4) Is it possible to spend empire culture to expand a cities borders, or is it only possible to do that with gold? If it is the case that you cannot spend culture to expand borders, then city culture is only passive?

AFAIK, for money only.

 

[pi-r8]

wait, so you can grow a cities borders either with culture or with gold? Is there a difference between the two methods?

 

[Mercade]

wait, so you can grow a cities borders either with culture or with gold? Is there a difference between the two methods?

With culture the city grows automatically when you've got enough culture to expand a tile and the game selects with tile you get based on what would seem most easily achievable for the people in your city.

With gold you get to pick which tile you want to buy, so you can work your way to a resource that you fancy. Different tiles may have different price tags, though. A resource tile will be more expensive.

 

[pi-r8]

With culture the city grows automatically when you've got enough culture to expand a tile and the game selects with tile you get based on what would seem most easily achievable for the people in your city.

With gold you get to pick which tile you want to buy, so you can work your way to a resource that you fancy. Different tiles may have different price tags, though. A resource tile will be more expensive.

interesting.
most easily achievable? Hmm. That could be extremely annoying, if the game decides that a desert tile is more easily achievable than a hills iron tile.

 

[Mercade]

interesting.
most easily achievable? Hmm. That could be extremely annoying, if the game decides that a desert tile is more easily achievable than a hills iron tile.

It's not totally clear how that works. I'm sure that usefulness of the tile comes to play too, and the position of the moon, or something like that. If the choice is between a hills iron tile and desert, it may well pick that iron tile. But if the hills iron is behind another hill and there's also a juicy piece of grass nearby, the game may well go for the grass.

 

[pi-r8]

It's not totally clear how that works. I'm sure that usefulness of the tile comes to play too, and the position of the moon, or something like that. If the choice is between a hills iron tile and desert, it may well pick that iron tile. But if the hills iron is behind another hill and there's also a juicy piece of grass nearby, the game may well go for the grass.

If that's true then I really hope they at least have clear rules for how the city picks tiles, instead of just an RNG. putting in an RNG for city growth would really, really hurt the civ feel of carefully controlled growth.

 

[mjs0]

interesting.
most easily achievable? Hmm. That could be extremely annoying, if the game decides that a desert tile is more easily achievable than a hills iron tile.

I think it is a little more involved than that.
As I understand it:
The city will prioritize tiles that it 'needs', so if it is light on production it might take a hill tile (especially if you have set production as its focus), but if it needs food then a grassland tile will be acquired. However, it will typically not spread across a natural barrier such as a river, so given a choice of two grassland tiles it will take tiles on the city side of the river, even if they are further from the city.

 

[V. Soma]

I think it is a little more involved than that.
As I understand it:
The city will prioritize tiles that it 'needs', so if it is light on production it might take a hill tile (especially if you have set production as its focus), but if it needs food then a grassland tile will be acquired. However, it will typically not spread across a natural barrier such as a river, so given a choice of two grassland tiles it will take tiles on the city side of the river, even if they are further from the city.

Yes. I might add that perhaps setting of the city-governor also has effect on what tile the city takes next. If set to production, more likely that it will concentrate on a hill... If on food: grassland, etc.

 

[JonoLith]

First off, thanks for the clearification on alot of that. Seems to make alot of sense.

As to this;

If that's true then I really hope they at least have clear rules for how the city picks tiles, instead of just an RNG. putting in an RNG for city growth would really, really hurt the civ feel of carefully controlled growth.

One can pick their own tiles manually to expand. So if you KNOW that you'd rather have one tile over another, you can just tell the game to claim it, and it will.

 

[playshogi]

One can pick their own tiles manually to expand. So if you KNOW that you'd rather have one tile over another, you can just tell the game to claim it, and it will.

I hope this is true. Maybe that's where the pink hex comes into view. The game suggests one, but you can change it.

 

[Polobo]

Forget where I read/heard this but purchasing a tile via gold is completely independent of acquiring a tile via culture; thus you could purchase a tile on turn 10 and on turn 11 you get enough culture to have the city grow into a different (uncontrolled) tile.

The only issue I've seen with the culture mechanic is similar to that found in Civ4 where you have a single desert/mountain/etc... tile in the middle of your empire that is undesirable and thus not under your influence.

Also, while you can only work out to 3 rings is there a limit on how far out you could capture tiles. Depending on whether there are coast/ocean limitation on boats still it would be interesting to affect a culture bridge to distant shores that your units could then travel.

 

[mjs0]

Forget where I read/heard this but purchasing a tile via gold is completely independent of acquiring a tile via culture; thus you could purchase a tile on turn 10 and on turn 11 you get enough culture to have the city grow into a different (uncontrolled) tile.

I remember reading the same thing.

The only issue I've seen with the culture mechanic is similar to that found in Civ4 where you have a single desert/mountain/etc... tile in the middle of your empire that is undesirable and thus not under your influence.

I wouldn't say this is an issue. It is at worst aesthetically displeasing.
How much that bothers you...well see my last sentence below.

Also, while you can only work out to 3 rings is there a limit on how far out you could capture tiles. Depending on whether there are coast/ocean limitation on boats still it would be interesting to affect a culture bridge to distant shores that your units could then travel.

Now this is an interesting question...because it also begs the question...Do I have to plan my city placement to avoid permanent culture holes in my territory due to tiles that are 4+ away from any city?
Of course this should only bother those of us that have OCD tendencies, assuming the Civ3 'AIs will settle on any unowned tile' annoyance has not returned.

 

[JonoLith]

Forget where I read/heard this but purchasing a tile via gold is completely independent of acquiring a tile via culture; thus you could purchase a tile on turn 10 and on turn 11 you get enough culture to have the city grow into a different (uncontrolled) tile.

This seems to make sense. It would be silly if you were gaining a tile through culture, and then you decided to buy the tile, and lost all the culture. Unless the tile was cheaper, in terms of gold, if it had been "researched" through culture for awhile. That would be an elegant way to go about it.

The only issue I've seen with the culture mechanic is similar to that found in Civ4 where you have a single desert/mountain/etc... tile in the middle of your empire that is undesirable and thus not under your influence.

Never forget that Great People can turn lame useless tiles into amazing tiles of crazy pants. Turning a desert/tundra tile into something that's producing an amazing amount of gold/culture/science.

Also, in terms of military tactics, it's probably just a better idea to not have holes in your culture.

Also, while you can only work out to 3 rings is there a limit on how far out you could capture tiles. Depending on whether there are coast/ocean limitation on boats still it would be interesting to affect a culture bridge to distant shores that your units could then travel.

This is a facinating question actually. I sort of like the idea of a single city just pumping out so much culture that it has enormus borders.

I think for me to decide my true feelings on the issue I'll have to have the tile in conflict question answered; that is, "Is it possible to take a tile from someone who has previously owned said tile?" We've all played a game of civ where you stole a resource tile from someone. I'm curious to know if this is possible in civ5. I know you can't take cities with culture any longer, but what about tiles?

 

[Algeroth]

in one of the previwes was writen iirc that tiles flip like in previous civ, you just can't buy them by gold.

 

[Thormodr]

I am concerned that there will be gaps between your cities if you can't own territory outside of your 3 hex range for your cities.

Although it really wouldn't have a big impact on gameplay, it would look pretty ugly I think.

Hopefully, they have a mechanism to address that.

 

[mjs0]

"Is it possible to take a tile from someone who has previously owned said tile?" We've all played a game of civ where you stole a resource tile from someone. I'm curious to know if this is possible in civ5. I know you can't take cities with culture any longer, but what about tiles?

Yeah, that one is high on my 'I wish Greg would answer this question' list.

It will be a really strange game if the only way to get access to an owned resource that is 2 tiles from my city is to go conquer a city that is 3 tiles further away.
It will be even stranger if that city takes the resource back with it if it is later conquered by another civ.

The inability to flip cities I can live with...not being able to ever flip tiles would really reduces options for peaceful players.

 

[King Jason]

I am concerned that there will be gaps between your cities if you can't own territory outside of your 3 hex range for your cities.

Although it really wouldn't have a big impact on gameplay, it would look pretty ugly I think.

Hopefully, they have a mechanism to address that.

Any reason you couldn't tessellate your cities in preparation for their limited culture expansion? People did that all the time in civ4, cept not entirely for culture reasons, but rather to reduce overlap.

Personally in civ5, I'm not going to be concerned with overlap of the 3rd hex range, as reaching population to work so far out (starting from the center) is probably unlikely, especially if you intend to run any specialists in certain cities.

So just place cities about 5 hexes apart and their borders should always touch (after a bit of growth).

 

[marioflag]

Yeah, that one is high on my 'I wish Greg would answer this question' list.

It will be a really strange game if the only way to get access to an owned resource that is 2 tiles from my city is to go conquer a city that is 3 tiles further away.
It will be even stranger if that city takes the resource back with it if it is later conquered by another civ.

The inability to flip cities I can live with...not being able to ever flip tiles would really reduces options for peaceful players.

The culture bomb option available to the Great Artist should be directed properly to flip tiles controlled by other civs. If it is just a way to grab tiles without buying them it would be a really weaker option than Great Merchant's Trade Caravan.