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[RD] curing aging

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I suppose that research into significant life extension will pick up when there is actually a light in the end of the tunnel. Which isn't now. I don't care, because vampires live for hundreds of years, but the rest of you should realize this dream doesn't concern you :)
     
  2. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    The fear to die before you've experienced enough of life, isn't necessarily an irrational fear. It can be just one single thing that you're holding on to, that needs to be cleared up before you feel satisfied. You can't let it go and maybe you shouldn't.

    So you botanize amongst death sins, which isn't stuff that God will send you to hell for (priests made that up), but things that prevent you from "heaven", being a completely free person, not an afterlife (priests made that up to).

    - We've lost our rights, we don't have rights anymore? - We got rid of them! [Waiting For Godot]

    I prefer to live my life as I choose, even if it means that I have to use fear and hatred as the main fuel for keeping going. Especially if the alternative is bending my knees publicly in a church.

    That's freedom for me.

    But as I've gotten older, surprisingly I've actually started to worry less about dying, it's not that big of a deal.

    It didn't start to well in my childhood, when my mother told me about when she sat at my uncles death bed, there was a big struggle and after a while he said "thank you jesus" and became still.

    There's so many things wrong with that story, apart from telling such private things to your child (or anyone for that matter) :)

    But this isn't about christianity, I apologize for the off-topic and sincerly wish you all a pleasant death.
     
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  3. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    With the understanding that these interventions merely buy time ...

    I think there's a lot of potential in nutraceuticals, a lot more than we realize. But, there are upsides and downsides to getting the research moving.
    The upside is that there are many plant isolates that would fall under the GRAS standard (Generally Recognized As Safe), because they come from foods that we eat so much of. This means that moving from animal testing to human testing is quite easy, regulation-wise. The science is still hard - all science with human subjects is hard - but the initial paperwork is orders-of-magnitude more approachable from an early-investor standpoint. Our lab worked on these for some time, specifically, and very often will still collaborate in order to be a replicate set of studies for another lab.

    The downside is that these compounds are very hard to patent in a business-useful sense. Oh, our specific extraction process can be patented. But the extract itself cannot be, which means that a slightly different extraction can free-ride off of all the science work that was done by the original group. So, the only groups that would fund our original research are either charity organizations (who just care about the creation of interventions, not the profits) and government funding that is dedicated to long-shot-but-necessary science (in our case the US Department of Defense, we were looking at nutraceuticals that could reduce necrosis and excessive apoptosis after concussive injury).

    Very often I'd be working with an extract and just wishing I could collaborate with veterinarians and pet-owners who would be willing to 'go the extra mile' in protecting their animal's longevity. It was a very expensive way of adding n, but getting some species diversity behind our research really would have been awesome. But, again, it usually only charities that funded our research, it's why I so often talk about them being the 3rd necessary wing of medical R&D.

    Nick Bostrom points out that it's only 'luck' that we're in a universe where an existential risk wasn't easily discovered. If we'd been able to cause fusion with (say) microwaves, humanity would have died. Of course, there are strong odds that designed super-bugs will be our doom this century.

    I don't agree that we can put any price tag on health, at least not universally. Humans care very little about their long-term future when it's measured against their short-term pleasure, especially when we measure using any type of discount value. This comes up in AGW discussions, because figuring out how much people value their future suffering (or the suffering of other peoples' kids) has a pretty large spread between 'what they say' to -> 'how they behave'
     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Indeed. I've been watching Altered Carbon recently... and it occurs to me that if human beings were able to "re-sleeve", ie replace their damaged bodies, essentially "curing" aging, people would give less than the slightest eff about health... life would become all about pleasure, since long-term health would be a non-factor.
     
  5. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    It'd still be a factor if you weren't by default allowed to use the tech.
    Service guarantees citizenship (but you may be cut to pieces by bugs and never make it back anyway :) )

    It would be interesting, and a bit hopeful, but still many would rot (then again everyone will as things stand, so it can be seen as an improvement).

    Another issue, of course, is that failing bodies aren't the only thing which can diminish you. The mind will likely also collapse after some point, unless stuff are done, and those will be of another type and require new breakthroughs to fix. Maybe some qualities are to collapse by default after a time, but humans don't live long enough to experience that now.
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Mass extinctions happen and complexity rebuilds to a more complex level. That's the macro level and a bit out of our control. At the personal level longevity is complicated by both internal and external factors (You could be hit by a truck tomorrow!). Personal searches to slow or end aging may have benefits beyond that specific search even if they have no effect on aging. Our ego driven selves are powerful forces.
     
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  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    This will be a little bit contentious on my part, but my phrasing is to make a point.
    Do you think you'd prefer to be her primary caregiver in her last couple of years or vis versa? Like, cleaning up after, remembering to give the meds, putting on the socks, etc. It sounds more like you're looking forward to being retired, but the end of the story is that one person becomes more of an invalid than the other, and you don't know how long that period will last or overlap. So, preferences on who degenerates fastest?
     
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  8. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    It's not that I'm specifically looking forward to being retired at all. What I am looking forward to, is passing through the various experiences of life with my wife and experiencing those things together with her, including, but not limited to aging.

    But as for your main point, I think that this is a false choice, in the sense that if you look back at what I was responding to, I believe that you will see that what my comment referred to, is that given the choice between me getting old together with my wife versus me staying young while my wife gets old and dies, versus me forcing my wife to stay young against her will... I'd opt for the first option, as I regard the other two as unconscionable.

    Now what you are asking, or at least what you seem to be asking, is something that I believe I already acknowledged and addressed in that same post (or a post shortly thereafter). Specifically, I acknowledged the unappetizing prospect of both becoming invalid, as well as having to care for someone invalid for decades on end. Of course you would recognize, that there is a fairly broad spectrum of "invalid". If at some point, the spouse becomes so far gone that they have to transition to 100% inpatient care, then you are completely relieved of having to be the primary caregiver. Similarly, if you are both too far along in terms of being invalid that you both need some sort of live in nurse and/or caregiver and/or nursing home care, then again, there is no caregiving responsibility.

    So I guess what you are really referring to, is the very specific situation where one spouse is diminished in their faculties so much so that they need substantial caretaking, but not enough to require placement in a long term care facility or hospitalization... and the other spouse is not themselves, similarly situated and is sufficiently capable of providing the full time care themselves, and there is no adult child that can/will take on that role in lieu of the spouse (which is what happened with my parents via my sister), and the spouse is not financially in position to simply hire an in-house and/or full time caretaker for the invalid spouse.

    Now if that's what you're getting at, I have a few responses to that. First, I think that very specific situation is so nuanced, that I don't think it warrants much thought/worry, in the context of being for/against an anti-aging potion, since it is just as likely as one spouse experiencing a sudden death event before any of that happens. Second, I think I am, and hopefully will remain financially situated to easily hire full time in-home nursing, so worrying bout my wife being saddled with that (or vice-versa) is a non-factor for me. But if all you want to know is putting all the above aside you just want me to hypothetically, in a vacuum make a call whether I want to die first or my wife to die first. That's easy... I'd want to be the one to go first, 100% with no reservation.
     
  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I think that the correct choice (in this obviously very sad - but real - prospect) is that you'd want to be the non-invalid.
    Sure, it is terrible to watch your loved one deteriorate, but it would be even worse to be yourself out of it and not even realize what is happening.
    Sadly, afaik, sudden death is rare in old age. It usually happens after a time (say a year) of rapid deterioration, although some were lucky enough to go very peacefully.
    Sudden death is a possibility mostly in middle-age/late middle age, from anxiety causing heart failure or similar.
     
  10. Chicken Pizza

    Chicken Pizza Warlord

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    Maybe giving and recieving was supposed to be the same thing, but they got separated and tangled together in complicated ways.

    Maybe it helps to break up the reason to want to live longer, in those two and analyze them separately.

    If sudden death is what you prefer, maybe your entire life is just a long test of your acceptance, faith, love, patience, submission or whatever God decides to call it.
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Where Ageism Matters

    Residents in some states show more age bias than others, and views can affect how seniors are treated in the pandemic, recent studies find

    BY CLARE ANSBERRY

     
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  12. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I think the WSJ is being rubbish. They must be talking about this paper, and the map in that paper is below, and is different to the WSJ one, West Virginia in particular sticks out, as does California.
     
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  13. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    And it appears that other states appear different too. Nice catch. :)
     
  14. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One. And many.

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    You know I used to be a strong proponent of curing aging. I viewed it as the scourge of man.

    But today I say: If you want to live forever, you really had never any idea how to live to begin with.

    I already mentioned this elsewhere: There is a practice by Buddhist monks where they create very complicated and perfectly symmetrical mandalas with their finger in sand. Takes hours.
    And the moment they are finished, they swipe it all away like it was nothing. No regrets.

    To grasp to life, to want things to stay fixed, rigid, dead, to want to control like that - that is the path of fear and darkness, of small minds or souls, of desperation. It is puny and pathetic.
    In the end, you only have two choices: fear or love.

    Choose wisely.

    Choose love.

    Choose surrender.

    Choose freedom.
     
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  15. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    @Samson I sent the author of the article an email with a link to the pdf you cited. I pointed out the map differences. Lets see if she responds. Also of note, is that the article was originally written back in Feb 2020.
     
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  16. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I wonder if they wrote it from a pre-print. The paper says: First published: 22 July 2020
     
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  17. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Isn't that just like a game of Civ?
     
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  18. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One. And many.

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    Smart comment.
    For if you see life for the mere game it is, you see it for what it actually is.
     
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  19. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Could be. If I get a response, I will post it.
     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Reminds me of a story the narrator tells in the movie Zeitgeist: Moving Forward, where he plays Monopoly with his Grandmother... after he finally wins the game, his Grandmother chillingly tells him... "Now it all goes back in the box"



    Such a concise illustration of life. It all goes back in the box... including you.
     
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