1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[RD] curing aging

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by caketastydelish, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    61,794
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Or we can pull a Flowers for Algernon :D
     
  2. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,392
    Location:
    Cambridge
    I do not know it, is it worth reading, or would you recommend the 2000 film?
     
    Kyriakos likes this.
  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    61,794
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    It is a great short story (don't try the novel), but very saddening.
    The film is good too, but it's only a 20 page (iirc) story so you could have a look first :)
     
  4. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,392
    Location:
    Cambridge
    So the version with 129 pages is probably not worth it?
     
    Kyriakos likes this.
  5. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    5,766
    Location:
    England
    Flowers for Algernon is a simple story, very poignant and in my opinion the shorter version is quite adequate.
     
    Kyriakos and El_Machinae like this.
  6. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    45,520
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    Thanks for the feedback on 'truly. I was pushing for emphasis, to self-affirm my later conclusion. If it was seen as sarcastic, then my entire point was lost.

    I think the last sentence of my post mirrors yours! That the only solution to the upcoming cointoss is to strive to maintain the other's health.
     
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    45,520
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    I did some quick math. My mother, a boomer, has about a one in six chance of having Alzheimer's when she's 85. And that is including the chance that she will have passed on from something else before then. Like, I can look at her now, and realize that there is a one in six chance that she will have Alzheimer's when she is 85.

    If I learned right now if that at the age of 85, a burglar would bust into her house and play Russian roulette with her frontal cortex, I would probably do something about it. And right now, this is happening all across my city, my country, and my planet.

    I don't think I should be looking at my seventies for a timeline of necessary progress!

    I once wrote a grant application looking to do a pilot study with Alzheimer's as a target. People not in the field wouldn't realize it, but all grant applications are boilerplate regarding what they say about the disease. Incidence blah blah blah prevalence blah blah blah. Future cost blah blah blah.

    I was a student at the time, and so was making a best-effort that my professor was going to edit. I remember writing a paragraph about how people with Alzheimer's, if they were at least middle class, reported a reasonable quality of life. It was their caretakers (usually women) that recorded a drastic drop of life satisfaction. So, my study was for them. My intro got deleted, haha, and replaced with boilerplate. I never got peer review on my conclusion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    61,794
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    I haven't read it, but the short story is regarded as a classic, while I've read a few not that good things about the novel.
    Afaik the films are adapted from the short story as well, though I have only watched the late 90s-early 2000s (?) one.
     
  9. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,392
    Location:
    Cambridge
    I am certainly not saying we should do nothing about it. I am saying that if you today try and manipulate your microbiome to reduce your likelihood of dementia then that is going to be in your "kale" class of interventions, ie. very little return on your investment. However, if you want to do something about it, then kale (or probably fruit and veg in general) is a good a way as any. There is a lot of work going on now, and I expect that in 20 years we will know a lot more such that you will be able to do something meaningful about it.

    The cool kids are working on the TLDc proteins for their influence on the Parkinson's / Alzheimer's / ALS axis, and they look a bit like drug targets so it is not a field that is not short of funding. If I had an investment pot dedicated to high risk, high return activist investor stuff, that would be something I would consider.
     
    Hrothbern likes this.
  10. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,144
    Location:
    On the one spin
    Sure. Its like two people stranded together in the middle of the Pacific ocean. You're both dead. The only thing you can do is hold on tight to each other and kick for all you're worth until you can't kick anymore.

    I think what your point misses centers around the "opportunity cost" angle. To quote the bible, 1 Corinthians chapter 13:

    "If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind... it keeps no record of wrongs...It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails." In other words... with love, opportunity cost is completely irrelevant. It does not matter what I have to "give up" to show love to my loved ones, because I'm not giving up anything. Loving my loved ones is the whole point.

    But there is a bit of a blurry line between doing whatever you can to maintain the other's health and making them miserable by forcing them to do things against their will. There's way too many variables to list obviously, but I think you get my meaning. Preserving your spouse's life/health at all cost, must at some point give way to preserving your spouse's happiness/wishes.
     
    El_Machinae likes this.
  11. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,215
    Yeah, I'm confused. You are stuck, I am stuck. We are all stuck until we are not. Why is caring for your spouse something that is a cost? A loss in the exchequer, as it were. It is not. My grandmother was in long term care years before my grandfather. He smiled in surprise and then was struck, like a bell, with the realization as to why his family would be surprising him at his door on a random weekday morning. There was no loss regained, no opportunity cost recouped when he diminished with her passing. The light just goes out. That the light was not shining in the pattern we wished it to paint does not make its absence somehow palatable.
     
    Birdjaguar, tjs282 and Sommerswerd like this.
  12. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,144
    Location:
    On the one spin
    I don't think you're confused at all. Sounds like you've got it exactly to me.
     
  13. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    61,794
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Under the spreading chestnut tree
    I sold you and you sold me:
    There lie they, here lie we,
    Under the spreading chestnut tree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  14. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,215
    Longfellow's is better than Orwell's.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  15. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    61,794
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    I suppose it is this one.

    Too rural for me; I prefer Orwell's ^_^
     
  16. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,144
    Location:
    On the one spin
    Toiling,—rejoicing,—sorrowing,
    Onward through life he goes;
    Each morning sees some task begin,
    Each evening sees it close;
    Something attempted, something done,
    Has earned a night’s repose.

    Thanks, thanks to thee, my worthy friend,
    For the lesson thou hast taught!
    Thus at the flaming forge of life
    Our fortunes must be wrought;
    Thus on its sounding anvil shaped
    Each burning deed and thought!
     
  17. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    42,729
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Best not to stress out about such things. Adding to one's cortisol levels is not a good plan.

    Link to video.
     
  18. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,215
    Rural...? Wonder if it was the tree or the blacksmith?

    Alright, you could go with The Cross of Snow then, and even stay on topic? Has a mountain in it though.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  19. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    45,520
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    I won't agree that the field is flush with fund. Given how much we were paying for a Covid-19 QALY, I think we're drastically under-investing. Plus (as I mentioned before), I think there's technological positive feedback that we're foregoing. Most good research grants aren't funded, which is just potential progress sitting on the floor.

    I don't really believe in 'activist investor', because I am just devoted to the leverage on my dollar. Now, I'm all-in on having a component of my portfolio devoted to high-risk, high-reward. And I will definitely try to stay in my knowledge wheelhouse. But I don't buy stocks thinking I'm 'doing good'. Sure, I might avoid a bad company all else-being-equal with returns. And I will definitely look for those options. But the benefit to a company by me purchasing shares (or vis versa) is only a fraction of the opportunity cost on those dollars.

    If I am willing to lose money for something, I'd rather just give the money. That way the loss on my end is commensurate with the labour I am purchasing. Ideally, it's an investment that I'm paying for by foregoing something I don't need. But at the very tightest, I have to judge my donation vs. my future donations if I'd put the money into the market first. If I am giving wisely, there is compounding returns on that gift. And, as I mentioned to Cake, I can also support things on the Demand-Side of the equation. But, imo, the Demand-Side of the equation on this question isn't helped by me saving up to buy the useful technologies. Aging interventions will sell themselves, and the wealth I accumulate is zero-sum.
     
    Samson likes this.
  20. Samson

    Samson Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,392
    Location:
    Cambridge
    Just from my point of view, from somewhere near the bottom level of medical research, is seems like a field that has a lot of funding opportunities. Nowhere is flush with funding, but that is one that gets attention from MRC core funding under aging, quite a few charities and drug companies. I do not see another field that gets that level of support in the UK.

    I am not saying it is over funded, it has a massive impact on QALY and is showing promise. There is this thing of covidization of research (I have thought about getting on the bandwagon, but my stuff is not really applicable), but I do not complain about it 'cos it is really important.
     
    El_Machinae likes this.

Share This Page