Curious - why no Sikhs in Civ4?

Gooblah

Heh...
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
4,282
Hmmm.
For a Sikh Civ, I'm thinking:
UU: Nihang Warrior (Nihang Swordsman? Just Nihang?)
-Replaces Maceman (or Pikeman)
-1-2 First Strikes
-Starts with City Raider I (or some other promotion)
UB: Gurdwara
-Replaces....dunno. More like a religious building. Should replace Temple, but a Christian Gurdwara? Maybe it replaces the Monument? That makes the most sense (aside from Temple)
-+2 happiness
-+2 culture
-third effect: well, again, dunno; I'm Hindu, not Sikh, and most of the Sikh kids I know I don't talk to very much, so...
 

GuoYuanQiaoZhi1

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
19
Location
Beijing, born in Lhasa
This is an iDEA for Civ4 SE asia maps

Religions
Lamaism holy City (HC) Lhasa, Tibet
Thervada Buddhism HC Krung Thep, Thailand
Shinto HC Osaka, Japan
Zen Buddhism HC NONE
Hinduism HC Benares, India
Confucianism HC ???
Taoism HC Donjing, (China)

Civs

HUMAN (playble)
Tibet - Dalai Lama
Thailand - King Bhumibol Adelajey
Japan - Shogun Tokagawa Ueyasiu
China - Emporeer Qin Shi Huang
India - Asoka
Mongolia - Genghis Khan

CPU
Khmer - ???
Laos - ???
Dutch (arrive at c.1600AD) - King William IIII
Barbarian - non contactable - none ALWAYS WAR

QS

1. How do I modify religions and their icons
2. How do I create new CIV

Please reply, civfanatics
 

GuoYuanQiaoZhi1

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
19
Location
Beijing, born in Lhasa
Honestly, I think Sikhism should've been included over Judiasm, not because of how brave Sikhs are, but mostly because of the fact that it's a much larger religion than Judiasm.

It not the size of a religion that matters, but culture impact. Without Judaism, we would no have Islam or Christian, so the religious impact judaism makes is

2 billion Christians
1 Billion Islams
13.5mn Jews

Which mean that judaism accounts for creation of Half world religion
that is exterme importance
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
8,194
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
They should have for religions (did I say this already???):

M=Starts with Missionary

1. Christianity (Theology) M
2. Judaism (Monotheism)
3. Islam (Divine Right) M
4. Hinduism (Polytheism)
5. Buddhism (Meditation)
6. Jainism (Priesthood)
7. Sikhism (Iron Working) M
8. Baha'i (Scientific Method)
9. Zoroastrianism (Dualism?)
10. Confucianism (Code of Laws) M
11. Daoism (Philosophy) M
12. Cao Dai (Radio) M
 

Wodan

Deity
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
4,867
Location
In transit
I think most Christians and Muslims would be offended by the idea that either religion came into being because of Judaism or that either religion was an offshoot of Judaism. Most likely they would say that, if Judaism had never occurred, Jesus or Mohammed would have been born and lived their life much the same as it really happened, and that they would have had their divine inspiration/influences just the same.

Anyway.... that's religion for ya.

Personally I feel it's pretty clear that Christianity and Islam both borrowed pretty heavily from other religions.

Wodan
 

Squarg

Awesomesauce
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
583
Location
I-Town, NY
I think most Christians and Muslims would be offended by the idea that either religion came into being because of Judaism or that either religion was an offshoot of Judaism. Most likely they would say that, if Judaism had never occurred, Jesus or Mohammed would have been born and lived their life much the same as it really happened, and that they would have had their divine inspiration/influences just the same.

Anyway.... that's religion for ya.

Personally I feel it's pretty clear that Christianity and Islam both borrowed pretty heavily from other religions.

Wodan

As I say about the Israeli crisis: "Jews and Moslems, the same people separated by a common ancestry."
 

Shirastro

The ruler of the Gnomes
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
499
I think most Christians and Muslims would be offended by the idea that either religion came into being because of Judaism or that either religion was an offshoot of Judaism. Most likely they would say that, if Judaism had never occurred, Jesus or Mohammed would have been born and lived their life much the same as it really happened, and that they would have had their divine inspiration/influences just the same.

Anyway.... that's religion for ya.

Personally I feel it's pretty clear that Christianity and Islam both borrowed pretty heavily from other religions.

Wodan

Dont be so naive. While im sure there are idiots out there that would deny the influence of Judaism on Christianity or Islam, you cant deny that the old testament is still part of the "Christian" bible, and that Muslims consider Abraham (and Jesus) as true prophets that came before Mohamed or that it was Archangel Gabriel (a figure coming from Judaism)that whispered Gods words to Mohamed's ear so that he would memorize them and turn them into Koran.

Its one thing to be antisemitic, but this way you would just be stupid.

The whole debate about should Judaism be in the game or not, is ridiculous IMO.


And about this whole Sikh "debate"........i cant believe that a Poland thread got this long....and its not even a valid one either.

Edit: I'm not calling you antisemitic Wodan, i was speaking in general.
 

Wodan

Deity
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
4,867
Location
In transit
What I said has nothing to do with Semites. All I meant was that, to a true believer of ANY religion (except for paganism), not just Christianity or Islam, their faith would dictate that their religion is the one true religion, and that it would have come about regardless of what had come before. That's pretty much the definition of "faith".

And, I clearly said that *I* didn't believe that. ;)

Wodan
 

AmazonQueen

Virago
Moderator
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
8,005
Location
Sailing the Homeward Ocean
What I said has nothing to do with Semites. All I meant was that, to a true believer of ANY religion (except for paganism), not just Christianity or Islam, their faith would dictate that their religion is the one true religion, and that it would have come about regardless of what had come before. That's pretty much the definition of "faith".

And, I clearly said that *I* didn't believe that. ;)

Wodan

A Christian or Muslim might say that but a religious historian would see clear influence on them from Judaism. Arguably Zorasterism should have been included as it is probable that it was the first monotheistic faith and that it was Zorastian influence that changed Judaism from worship of a tribal God to true monotheism.
 

Wodan

Deity
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
4,867
Location
In transit
A Christian or Muslim might say that but a religious historian would see clear influence on them from Judaism. Arguably Zorasterism should have been included as it is probable that it was the first monotheistic faith and that it was Zorastian influence that changed Judaism from worship of a tribal God to true monotheism.
Influence does not imply a cause & effect relationship. I think that's what we're dancing around here.

My house has things done by the previous owners. But that doesn't mean if they had never lived here that I wouldn't be living in this house now, or even that some of the things wouldn't have happened anyway.

Anyway.... enough on all that. ;)

Wodan
 

Rotty

Chieftain
Joined
Nov 23, 2007
Messages
45
This is an iDEA for Civ4 SE asia maps

Religions
Lamaism holy City (HC) Lhasa, Tibet
Thervada Buddhism HC Krung Thep, Thailand
Shinto HC Osaka, Japan
Zen Buddhism HC NONE
Hinduism HC Benares, India
Confucianism HC ???
Taoism HC Donjing, (China)

I don't see how it makes sense to have multiple Buddhist sects with holy cities in places like Thailand while leaving out Bodhgaya, particularly not when you have just one Hinduism rather than Vaishnavas, Shaivas, etc...
 

Martin79

Warlord
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
137
Location
Montréal, Québec
I would always take more civilizations - and leaders, but IMO the game doesn't need more religions.
 

Olleus

Deity
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
6,478
Location
Beyond the Veil
Number of religions should vary with the number of civs in the game IMO. There should be about 10 techs than found a religion, but depending on the number of civs playing only the first x should actualy found a religion, the others would just do nothing that game.
 

AmazonQueen

Virago
Moderator
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
8,005
Location
Sailing the Homeward Ocean
Number of religions should vary with the number of civs in the game IMO. There should be about 10 techs than found a religion, but depending on the number of civs playing only the first x should actualy found a religion, the others would just do nothing that game.


Good idea
With mods and a good computer you can play with 30+ civs on a map that makes huge look small. I think the game could use 10 or so religions then whereas on a tiny map even 7 can be too many.
 

Mike Hussey

Cricketer
Joined
Feb 12, 2007
Messages
239
Location
Sydney
It struck me as odd that whilst Civ4 has a number of religions, it omits the Sikhs, when Sikhism is the 5th largest organised religion in the world. Why is that?

It's especially odd given that Sikhs are an extremely martial race, with the elite Nihang mirroring many aspects of the ancient Spartans. Surely ideal for a game like this?

There are numerous special units they could have too such as the Akalis (immortals), who were unbelievably ferocious warriors. They later developed into the Nihang warriors, who can be seen wandering fully armed around Punjab even today (N W India).

On a weapons basis they ALL carry swords, but many carry Chakras and spears. All Akali were mounted, and many (most?) Nihang are.

Today they practice the Sikh martial art of Gatka, which is a somewhat watered down version of the original military training of the Nihang from 200 years ago.

The Sikhs were also the only Indians to beat British forces regularly on the battlefield (better sharper weapons, better armour, and more ferocious). Small numbers of them often defeated much larger Mughal, Persian and Afghan armies.

Surely a no brainer for the next add on?



They also have a couple of obvious leaders for use in the game: the warrior Emperor, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, and also General Akali Phula Singh who is a very well known and respected leader of the Nihang from about 200 years ago. Even the Emperor bowed to the general's authority.

Hey Jas! :)

If you want it so badly, then why don't you go and create another Civilisation expansion or modpack with the Sikh religion in it?
 

Jas

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
51
Hey Jas! :)

If you want it so badly, then why don't you go and create another Civilisation expansion or modpack with the Sikh religion in it?

Simply because I don't have the IT skills to do it :(

If the game was easily configurable for people with near zero IT skill, I'd have already tried it.
 

nzcamel

Nahtanoj the Magnificent
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
I think most Christians and Muslims would be offended by the idea that either religion came into being because of Judaism or that either religion was an offshoot of Judaism. Most likely they would say that, if Judaism had never occurred, Jesus or Mohammed would have been born and lived their life much the same as it really happened, and that they would have had their divine inspiration/influences just the same.

Anyway.... that's religion for ya.

Personally I feel it's pretty clear that Christianity and Islam both borrowed pretty heavily from other religions.

Wodan

While not all Christians will agree, I think you'll find that most take the view that Christianity and Judaism are linked very closely. Paul in the Bible says that Christianity is an 'offshoot' of Judaism! (The Bible; Romans 11:11 - 11:24 esp. 11:17-20)

We (speaking for any Christian who does see it this way) would view it that both Judaism and Christianity were in God's plan. It's kinda like the whole tadpole changing into a frog thing. You can't have one without the other. The 1st 3/4's of the Christian bible(The old testament) is made up of different Jewish holy writings. We do think though that the Jewish writings are full of hidden references to Jesus Christ, some more obvious than others (eg the Bible; Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12). So to us it's not that God simply changed his mind on what he wanted to do; he just took his time in introducing his full plan!

We see that in the Bible that the Jews are God's chosen people; and the New Testament (Christian writings only) carries on this theme. A real world example of this is the U.S.'s support for Isreal in the middle east (I'm not saying it's the only reason they back them, but it's a big one.) If a Jew converts to Christianity we have a special name for them: Messianic Jews. They are still in a way seen to be Jewish! The bible also suggests that in the end times the Jews and Christians will get alot closer. The last verse in the Romans quote that I quoted to begin with (Romans 11:24) suggests that God isn't finished with the Jews as a seperate group to Christians. So it's not entirely a case of them or us.

But there will be Christians who disagree with this (although I challenge them to look at the verses in Romans 11; and if they are going to post against this they should back up their stance with scripture) and as far as I'm aware it's certainly not how the Jews view it.
 
Top Bottom