Curious - why no Sikhs in Civ4?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Jas, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. Jas

    Jas Chieftain

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    Good mod that :goodjob:
     
  2. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Hmmm.
    For a Sikh Civ, I'm thinking:
    UU: Nihang Warrior (Nihang Swordsman? Just Nihang?)
    -Replaces Maceman (or Pikeman)
    -1-2 First Strikes
    -Starts with City Raider I (or some other promotion)
    UB: Gurdwara
    -Replaces....dunno. More like a religious building. Should replace Temple, but a Christian Gurdwara? Maybe it replaces the Monument? That makes the most sense (aside from Temple)
    -+2 happiness
    -+2 culture
    -third effect: well, again, dunno; I'm Hindu, not Sikh, and most of the Sikh kids I know I don't talk to very much, so...
     
  3. GuoYuanQiaoZhi1

    GuoYuanQiaoZhi1 Chieftain

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    Location:
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    This is an iDEA for Civ4 SE asia maps

    Religions
    Lamaism holy City (HC) Lhasa, Tibet
    Thervada Buddhism HC Krung Thep, Thailand
    Shinto HC Osaka, Japan
    Zen Buddhism HC NONE
    Hinduism HC Benares, India
    Confucianism HC ???
    Taoism HC Donjing, (China)

    Civs

    HUMAN (playble)
    Tibet - Dalai Lama
    Thailand - King Bhumibol Adelajey
    Japan - Shogun Tokagawa Ueyasiu
    China - Emporeer Qin Shi Huang
    India - Asoka
    Mongolia - Genghis Khan

    CPU
    Khmer - ???
    Laos - ???
    Dutch (arrive at c.1600AD) - King William IIII
    Barbarian - non contactable - none ALWAYS WAR

    QS

    1. How do I modify religions and their icons
    2. How do I create new CIV

    Please reply, civfanatics
     
  4. GuoYuanQiaoZhi1

    GuoYuanQiaoZhi1 Chieftain

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    It not the size of a religion that matters, but culture impact. Without Judaism, we would no have Islam or Christian, so the religious impact judaism makes is

    2 billion Christians
    1 Billion Islams
    13.5mn Jews

    Which mean that judaism accounts for creation of Half world religion
    that is exterme importance
     
  5. Huayna Capac357

    Huayna Capac357 Deity

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    They should have for religions (did I say this already???):

    M=Starts with Missionary

    1. Christianity (Theology) M
    2. Judaism (Monotheism)
    3. Islam (Divine Right) M
    4. Hinduism (Polytheism)
    5. Buddhism (Meditation)
    6. Jainism (Priesthood)
    7. Sikhism (Iron Working) M
    8. Baha'i (Scientific Method)
    9. Zoroastrianism (Dualism?)
    10. Confucianism (Code of Laws) M
    11. Daoism (Philosophy) M
    12. Cao Dai (Radio) M
     
  6. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    I think most Christians and Muslims would be offended by the idea that either religion came into being because of Judaism or that either religion was an offshoot of Judaism. Most likely they would say that, if Judaism had never occurred, Jesus or Mohammed would have been born and lived their life much the same as it really happened, and that they would have had their divine inspiration/influences just the same.

    Anyway.... that's religion for ya.

    Personally I feel it's pretty clear that Christianity and Islam both borrowed pretty heavily from other religions.

    Wodan
     
  7. Squarg

    Squarg Awesomesauce

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    As I say about the Israeli crisis: "Jews and Moslems, the same people separated by a common ancestry."
     
  8. Shirastro

    Shirastro The ruler of the Gnomes

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    Dont be so naive. While im sure there are idiots out there that would deny the influence of Judaism on Christianity or Islam, you cant deny that the old testament is still part of the "Christian" bible, and that Muslims consider Abraham (and Jesus) as true prophets that came before Mohamed or that it was Archangel Gabriel (a figure coming from Judaism)that whispered Gods words to Mohamed's ear so that he would memorize them and turn them into Koran.

    Its one thing to be antisemitic, but this way you would just be stupid.

    The whole debate about should Judaism be in the game or not, is ridiculous IMO.


    And about this whole Sikh "debate"........i cant believe that a Poland thread got this long....and its not even a valid one either.

    Edit: I'm not calling you antisemitic Wodan, i was speaking in general.
     
  9. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    What I said has nothing to do with Semites. All I meant was that, to a true believer of ANY religion (except for paganism), not just Christianity or Islam, their faith would dictate that their religion is the one true religion, and that it would have come about regardless of what had come before. That's pretty much the definition of "faith".

    And, I clearly said that *I* didn't believe that. ;)

    Wodan
     
  10. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    A Christian or Muslim might say that but a religious historian would see clear influence on them from Judaism. Arguably Zorasterism should have been included as it is probable that it was the first monotheistic faith and that it was Zorastian influence that changed Judaism from worship of a tribal God to true monotheism.
     
  11. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Influence does not imply a cause & effect relationship. I think that's what we're dancing around here.

    My house has things done by the previous owners. But that doesn't mean if they had never lived here that I wouldn't be living in this house now, or even that some of the things wouldn't have happened anyway.

    Anyway.... enough on all that. ;)

    Wodan
     
  12. Rotty

    Rotty Chieftain

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    I don't see how it makes sense to have multiple Buddhist sects with holy cities in places like Thailand while leaving out Bodhgaya, particularly not when you have just one Hinduism rather than Vaishnavas, Shaivas, etc...
     
  13. Huayna Capac357

    Huayna Capac357 Deity

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    NO! Faith is believing in God because you know that it is right, not because someone told you to.
     
  14. mikels

    mikels Chieftain

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    Would a Sikh civilization have Harbajhan Singh as its UU? Would it have an attack bonus against darker skinned civs?
     
  15. Martin79

    Martin79 Warlord

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    I would always take more civilizations - and leaders, but IMO the game doesn't need more religions.
     
  16. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    Number of religions should vary with the number of civs in the game IMO. There should be about 10 techs than found a religion, but depending on the number of civs playing only the first x should actualy found a religion, the others would just do nothing that game.
     
  17. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Good idea
    With mods and a good computer you can play with 30+ civs on a map that makes huge look small. I think the game could use 10 or so religions then whereas on a tiny map even 7 can be too many.
     
  18. Mike Hussey

    Mike Hussey Cricketer

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    Hey Jas! :)

    If you want it so badly, then why don't you go and create another Civilisation expansion or modpack with the Sikh religion in it?
     
  19. Jas

    Jas Chieftain

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    Simply because I don't have the IT skills to do it :(

    If the game was easily configurable for people with near zero IT skill, I'd have already tried it.
     
  20. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    While not all Christians will agree, I think you'll find that most take the view that Christianity and Judaism are linked very closely. Paul in the Bible says that Christianity is an 'offshoot' of Judaism! (The Bible; Romans 11:11 - 11:24 esp. 11:17-20)

    We (speaking for any Christian who does see it this way) would view it that both Judaism and Christianity were in God's plan. It's kinda like the whole tadpole changing into a frog thing. You can't have one without the other. The 1st 3/4's of the Christian bible(The old testament) is made up of different Jewish holy writings. We do think though that the Jewish writings are full of hidden references to Jesus Christ, some more obvious than others (eg the Bible; Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12). So to us it's not that God simply changed his mind on what he wanted to do; he just took his time in introducing his full plan!

    We see that in the Bible that the Jews are God's chosen people; and the New Testament (Christian writings only) carries on this theme. A real world example of this is the U.S.'s support for Isreal in the middle east (I'm not saying it's the only reason they back them, but it's a big one.) If a Jew converts to Christianity we have a special name for them: Messianic Jews. They are still in a way seen to be Jewish! The bible also suggests that in the end times the Jews and Christians will get alot closer. The last verse in the Romans quote that I quoted to begin with (Romans 11:24) suggests that God isn't finished with the Jews as a seperate group to Christians. So it's not entirely a case of them or us.

    But there will be Christians who disagree with this (although I challenge them to look at the verses in Romans 11; and if they are going to post against this they should back up their stance with scripture) and as far as I'm aware it's certainly not how the Jews view it.
     

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