Current and Future Developments

[Kailric]

I'm not sure we need to rearrange them. However it is really simple to do. The buttons are defined near the top of the file and they are displayed in the order they are written. Change the order and you have a new layout. Most of the fine is selfconfiguring meaning you shouldn't have to modify anything else.

Well, the one button I wanted to move was the new Civics button. I was thinking of moving the "Congress" button to the left side as it is rarely used and put the Civic button on the very top.

 

[Nightinggale]

Oh those buttons.

I haven't really looked at code to place those buttons. Maybe it would be good to do something like in the domestic advisor with auto spacing and auto placement based on resolution. On top of that it should be a simple list where you just enter the button order and then the game will calculate placement based on that. With a bit of clever coding, the whole button line could change spacing during gameplay as new trade screens become available.

One thing which come to mind in this regard is the hotkeys. It is a bit annoying that we have different hotkeys than RaR for the same features. For instance RaR has domestic advisor on F1 while it is F6 in M:C. While there isn't anything wrong with either, it would be easier for people who play both mods if we could use the same hotkeys. It would be stupid for RaR to change hotkeys now meaning if we are to make a standard, CMC should switch to RaR layout.

 

[Kailric]

Oh those buttons.

I haven't really looked at code to place those buttons. Maybe it would be good to do something like in the domestic advisor with auto spacing and auto placement based on resolution. On top of that it should be a simple list where you just enter the button order and then the game will calculate placement based on that. With a bit of clever coding, the whole button line could change spacing during gameplay as new trade screens become available.

One thing which come to mind in this regard is the hotkeys. It is a bit annoying that we have different hotkeys than RaR for the same features. For instance RaR has domestic advisor on F1 while it is F6 in M:C. While there isn't anything wrong with either, it would be easier for people who play both mods if we could use the same hotkeys. It would be stupid for RaR to change hotkeys now meaning if we are to make a standard, CMC should switch to RaR layout.

M:C has several different screens than RaR so to try and match up exactly will put some of the more used screens and Trade Screens with no Function key.
For hot keys we should base the assigned key on its placement in the top row of buttons. So if you want Domestic Advisor as F1 it should be first in line. I would suggest placing all the most frequently used Buttons on the left side also.

Probably the most used buttons are the Domestic Advisor, Military Advisor, Founding Digitaries, Research Advisor, and then the Trade Screens.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

I would actually say to put the most used on the right hand side of the screen, just because this is where they have always been in both civ and col, I know the switch would keep messing up my brain!

 

[Kailric]

Ha, did I say left? I meant right. Just seeing if you were paying attention Seriously, getting left and right confused runs in my family

 

[Lib.Spi't]

hahaha I figured you were just trying to make us look foolish

I am on to your loki-esc trickery and shannigans!!

 

[Nightinggale]

Ha, did I say left? I meant right.

Yeah right.

Seriously, getting left and right confused runs in my family

That appears to be fair common with Americans. At least that is what the british traffic police say about American tourists

 

[Lib.Spi't]

We are debating in the UK whether to apply american law to american tourists.

the kind of law that says:
"Shoot first and ask the Coroner questions"

 

[Kailric]

That appears to be fair common with Americans. At least that is what the british traffic police say about American tourists

I don't rightly claim to be an "American", I'm a Irish-German Danish pilgrim. And one day I'll return to my home lands

 

[orlanth]

I'm a Irish-German Danish pilgrim. And one day I'll return to my home lands

Kailric is gonna steal our Relics to build a Shrine! call the inquisitor it's time for a Trial by Ordeal
(I would totally choose the ordeal of ingesting some bread and cheese lol I guess you could get a dry batch and choke but it sounds waay more benign than the other ones )

 

[Nightinggale]

I don't rightly claim to be an "American", I'm a Irish-German Danish pilgrim. And one day I'll return to my home lands

Then your genes speak Gaelic, German and Danish. Nice to know. From now on I will use German for Kailric communication. Let's start with this one:

Link to video.​

Ich hatte diese Film heute gefunden. Die meisten Filmen von Verstehen Sie Spass sind ganz lustig, aber diese Film ich viel klasse

 

[Kailric]

Then your genes speak Gaelic, German and Danish. Nice to know. From now on I will use German for Kailric communication. Let's start with this one:
Ich hatte diese Film heute gefunden. Die meisten Filmen von Verstehen Sie Spass sind ganz lustig, aber diese Film ich viel klasse

Sie haben recht, es ist zum Schreien komisch

 

[Trade Winds]

Do you accept suggestions for other videos? The Maya Bee could have an easier childish German easier for me to follow.

 

[Nightinggale]

This isn't the thread of posting lots of funny German videos. I was actually trying to pull a prank on Kailric, but it didn't work as intended. I had hoped some clueless reply, but it seems that people here are more skilled at German than I thought.

Perhaps we should try to get back to preparing a release. For one I noticed that there is a serious balance issue. Starting on the east coast is way better than the west cost. Being stuck on the west coast I couldn't access any trade routes and the natives wasn't that helpful in regards to buy my surplus. The economy still needs a major overhaul. I'm just not quite sure how to make it good enough.

 

[Kailric]

This isn't the thread of posting lots of funny German videos. I was actually trying to pull a prank on Kailric, but it didn't work as intended. I had hoped some clueless reply, but it seems that people here are more skilled at German than I thought.

Heh, I used a translator to figure out what you said and to make my reply I barely can speak my native English tounge much less any other language

Perhaps we should try to get back to preparing a release. For one I noticed that there is a serious balance issue. Starting on the east coast is way better than the west cost. Being stuck on the west coast I couldn't access any trade routes and the natives wasn't that helpful in regards to buy my surplus. The economy still needs a major overhaul. I'm just not quite sure how to make it good enough.

I don't understand the west coast dilima as it shouldn't matter what side of the coast you start from. I have temporary removed the ability to discover the Spice Route by moving onto an access plot because it needed recoding along with the updates to Trade Screens. Sounds like this needs added back. Soon as you discover the Spice Route trading the. works much the same.

 

[Nightinggale]

Heh, I used a translator to figure out what you said and to make my reply I barely can speak my native English tounge much less any other language

This is what confused me. I figured that might be the case, but the video is without subtitles. A great deal of the prank is in the dialogue. Oh and I just wrote whatever came to my mind without translator or dictionary.

I don't understand the west coast dilima as it shouldn't matter what side of the coast you start from. I have temporary removed the ability to discover the Spice Route by moving onto an access plot because it needed recoding along with the updates to Trade Screens. Sounds like this needs added back. Soon as you discover the Spice Route trading the. works much the same.

Whatever the cause is, I ended up with a whole lot of barley and nobody would buy it. I then made beer out of it and the minor civs bought that, but t was annoying slow to do trade like that and profits were not that good either. My ship couldn't reach any trade routes and I never generated enough trading points to unlock anything.

Judging from your posts, the code fits whatever playing style you have. However the economy stinks the way I have tried to get it going. Somebody else posted about being at war with the "natives", which made it really difficult to sell yields to them. That's another way to stall your economy.

I have been thinking about the economy. Before 2.0 was released, you could travel to the fair and sell stuff. This made it too easy to earn way too much. Right now that feature isn't available early on and you can get stuck without an alternative. Colonization solved this issue by letting players start at access points and players can always use those to sell all yields. In M:C you can start far from access points and on large maps other civs can block your access. We really need to figure out a solution to this issue because being unable to sell spoils the game.

Another thing I noticed is that the transport you can build from the start isn't that good. That's ok considering you should be encouraged to invent new stuff. However it is actually worse than a willy trader. 2 cargo space and 2 moves and upgrades for trade points (move or cargo space) makes it better to make humans carry goods than using the wagons.

 

[Lib.Spi't]

I don't really see the issue Night.. especially the east/west coast?

I usaully start bang in the middle of the map and have to focus on finding a coast and getting ready for water trading, what coast you are on doesn't matter as both have access to the Spice Route once you have got your trade points discovered. Unless you are mistaking an inland lake or sea as the west or east edge (that happened to me once when I discovered I was trapped by ice in the south...)

It has always been the way that the natives want the produced goods not the raw materials, at least as far back as I remember (even vanilla), and your city starts with a production facility to at least convert your starting tiles resource. So you have to juggle and prioritise in the early days, sometimes producing goods, sometimes trading, sometimes researching or building until you attain a more 'Imperial' Level and can start taking care of business all at once.

wagons are better because you do not have to use up a citizen to do the job, you can use the wagons and just let them ride around inside your domestic system, then you get onto the higher levels of trade vehicles, like the caravan (I forget if this is a pop unit or a build unit)
Also a Wily Trader (better check your spelling, or I have found the reason why people are not buying what you are selling ) Is much rarer and more expensive than a wagon, so should be better, and with the bonuses gained from trade points, that is what really makes them better, but you have to get to that stage first.

As for native relations, war and losing trade with them, that is a matter of balancing expansion, cost and belligerence, until you are ready to actually get coastal shipping and a self sufficient trade system,you have to tread lightly with the natives, after you are self sufficient you can tick off whoever you feel like!

 

[Kailric]

I have been thinking about the economy. Before 2.0 was released, you could travel to the fair and sell stuff. This made it too easy to earn way too much. Right now that feature isn't available early on and you can get stuck without an alternative. Colonization solved this issue by letting players start at access points and players can always use those to sell all yields. In M:C you can start far from access points and on large maps other civs can block your access. We really need to figure out a solution to this issue because being unable to sell spoils the game.

I would have to agree with Lib.Spi't on this. But him and I seem to like the idea of starting from not much more than the clothes on your back and building an Empire. Much like a lot of these Civs had to do in real life. They didn't start with a ship and easy access to a profitable trade route, but somehow they survived and eventually flourished. So, why can't we do the same in a simulated computer game? If we give access to profits to early it really kills the idea of starting in the Dark Ages.

The randomness of were you start and the difficulties you may encounter are what really appeals to me in M:C. Each game you start you have no idea how or if you will survive until you start to explore and plan your strategy.

The Vikings start with access to their Motherland in M:C so maybe play a game with them and see how it goes. Remember you have to first conquer a village before you can found your own

What would be your suggestions for this? Maybe some other Civs like the Byzantines could start more advanced since they were. That way it would give access to different play styles while if you wanted a more difficult challenge you could start with the more difficult Civs. Civ Revolutions for the Xbox and iPhone has different Civ difficulties.

Anyway, I'll think on this as I sleep tonight

 

[orlanth]

Why not take some more advantage of Domestic Market and Demands? It lets you generate some subsistence income independent of having to launch special trading voyages, in a way that's proportional to your population and how well you satisfy them, without being limitless overflow money like the vanilla mechanism.

Yeah the Advanced Start game mechanism is actually quite fun (was that implemented for Byzantines?) It lets you try out being put into wide varieties of starting conditions.

 

[Nightinggale]

I don't really see the issue Night.. especially the east/west coast?

The east/west issue turned out not to be east/west anyway as it is broken for east too.

I realized what the main issue really is. It isn't as such selling yields (though that is an issue). The main issue is being unable to buy certain stuff like tools. Maybe it is realistic, but it really hurts gameplay. I don't feel the game to be as much fun as it was pre 2.0 and we better fix that.

Why not take some more advantage of Domestic Market and Demands?

Kailric keep saying he will look into it and then nothing happens in this regard
I have wondered about doing something in this regard as well. For starters I don't really like the current GUI.

Semi-related: do we agree that the plotgroups appear to work? It might be time to remove the debug code from the import/export lists.


Another thing. You get trade points for trading, but at the same time you need trade points to open trade routes. This can make it rather hard to get started. It is quite possibly even harder for the AI. Maybe it would be a good idea to enable an always on marked fair. That would work well if we make trade screens trade limited amount of yields. For instance say the new "domestic" screen buy 5 yields of raw material each turn. Supplying it with 10 will build up a stockpile and their buy price drops fast. Likewise they have a production if their stockpile is too low and once the stockpile is 0, you can't buy. This mean you can't just buy 500 weapons if you want to go to war with a surprise attack.