Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[alpav]

What is Greek Catholicism?

 

[calad]

What is Greek Catholicism?

One name for a branch on Christianity. Christianity leaded from Constantinople is called Greek Catholicism and Christianity leaded from Rome is called Roman Catholicism.

Anyway this goes a bit too much to theology which is worst kind of pseudo-rationality. You can argue about it forever like two churches have done.

I think best way to present Christianity is that it is automatically founded in Constantinople, if it does not exist then in Rome. Idea is that if Rome and Byzantine exist then there should be two kind of Christianity, otherwise only one.

 

[Barbuesque]

I really dislike auto-spawns on principle, games should play naturally and shouldn't be forced to follow set pattern for every game.
edit:

I'm with this guy.

Admittedly it is weird that the euros often never build the AP. I'd investigate that waaay before adding more scripted events.

 

[alpav]

Wait so is Greek Catholicism the exact same as Greek Orthodoxy?
Because I'm Orthodox and never knew heard of this term before...

 

[DC123456789]

Wait so is Greek Catholicism the exact same as Greek Orthodoxy?
Because I'm Orthodox and never knew heard of this term before...

Looking it up on Wikipedia, Greek Catholicism is basically the term for the Greek churches in communion with the Roman Catholic church. Not sure if this is the right one though...

 

[Mr_Hobo]

Yeah, Greek Orthodoxy =/= Greek Catholicism

 

[Swarbs]

Wait so is Greek Catholicism the exact same as Greek Orthodoxy?
Because I'm Orthodox and never knew heard of this term before...

The difference is largely semantic. Catholic generally means believing in God acting through a bishop who is a successor of one of the twelve apostles, which can be the Pope or any of the Greek, Russian, Egyptian or Syrian Patriarchs. Orthodox means adhering to church traditions such as the sacraments, rather than following Protestant or newer approaches to religion, which applies as much to Roman Catholics as to the Orthodox churches.

Both of them can arguably be applied to the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and around the time of the Great Schism they both commonly were. However as the two churches moved apart they used the two words to differentiate themselves. The Roman church used Catholic to try and support the Pope's claim to be the Holy See, or the most important of the Apostolic Sees, whilst the Eastern churches used Orthodox to try and support their claim to be the true successors of the Christian Church, with authority over Jerusalem.

So in general, Catholic is now used to mean Christians who follow the pope, whilst Orthodox is for Christians who follow a Patriarch. But the Eastern Orthodox churches still believe themselves to be catholic churches, as they follow Patriarchs, and until recently the Pope was also known as the Patriarch of the West.

 

[alpav]

Yes I Orthodoxy has Catholic in its formal name.
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It gets semi confusing when you start looking at the actual names.
Rome though was a Patriarch before.

 

[ales_]

Catholic is now used to mean Christians who follow the pope, whilst Orthodox is for Christians who follow a Patriarch.

And Greek Catholics are people who were following a Patriarch but now follow the Pope. But they are still following the Byzantine rite. (I'm Greek Catholic myself).

 

[ales_]

.....

 

[Swarbs]

And Greek Catholics are people who were following a Patriarch but now follow the Pope. But they are still following the Byzantine rite. (I'm Greek Catholic myself).

That's the perfect example - you can be Catholic whilst still following Orthodox traditions, all you have to do is agree the Pope is head of the church. Ditto if Catholics wanted to switch to Orthodoxy.

 

[alpav]

But you don't have people with Latin rites following a Patriarch though

 

[civ_king]

One name for a branch on Christianity. Christianity leaded from Constantinople is called Greek Catholicism and Christianity leaded from Rome is called Roman Catholicism.

Anyway this goes a bit too much to theology which is worst kind of pseudo-rationality. You can argue about it forever like two churches have done.

I think best way to present Christianity is that it is automatically founded in Constantinople, if it does not exist then in Rome. Idea is that if Rome and Byzantine exist then there should be two kind of Christianity, otherwise only one.

Actually the See of Rome predates the See of Constantinople...

The difference is largely semantic. Catholic generally means believing in God acting through a bishop who is a successor of one of the twelve apostles, which can be the Pope or any of the Greek, Russian, Egyptian or Syrian Patriarchs. Orthodox means adhering to church traditions such as the sacraments, rather than following Protestant or newer approaches to religion, which applies as much to Roman Catholics as to the Orthodox churches.

Both of them can arguably be applied to the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and around the time of the Great Schism they both commonly were. However as the two churches moved apart they used the two words to differentiate themselves. The Roman church used Catholic to try and support the Pope's claim to be the Holy See, or the most important of the Apostolic Sees, whilst the Eastern churches used Orthodox to try and support their claim to be the true successors of the Christian Church, with authority over Jerusalem.

So in general, Catholic is now used to mean Christians who follow the pope, whilst Orthodox is for Christians who follow a Patriarch. But the Eastern Orthodox churches still believe themselves to be catholic churches, as they follow Patriarchs, and until recently the Pope was also known as the Patriarch of the West.

...

Yes I Orthodoxy has Catholic in its formal name.
One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It gets semi confusing when you start looking at the actual names.
Rome though was a Patriarch before.

No, "one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church", there is actually a difference between "catholic" and "Catholic, the former means universal, the latter refers to the Church under the Patriarch of the West.

And Greek Catholics are people who were following a Patriarch but now follow the Pope. But they are still following the Byzantine rite. (I'm Greek Catholic myself).

Wassup my Uniate bro?

But you don't have people with Latin rites following a Patriarch though

Patriarch of the West...

 

[alpav]

No longer though plus no one called the Pope Patriarch.
Yes I know the differences between catholic and Catholic I'm just saying that the names are similar therefore they have a link to each other.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term Catholic Church is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."[8][9] Numerous other early writers including Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 315–386), Augustine of Hippo (354–430) and others further developed the use of the term "catholic" in relation to Christianity.

They were used interchangeably before the Great Schism.

When was the See of Rome founded? Just wondering, can't find info.

 

[civ_king]

No longer though plus no one called the Pope Patriarch.
Yes I know the differences between catholic and Catholic I'm just saying that the names are similar therefore they have a link to each other.



They were used interchangeably before the Great Schism.

When was the See of Rome founded? Just wondering, can't find info.

The Orthodox view the Pope as Patriarch of the West. They used both terms because they were one being not two.

Before Peter and Paul were martyred there

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

One name for a branch on Christianity. Christianity leaded from Constantinople is called Greek Catholicism and Christianity leaded from Rome is called Roman Catholicism.

Anyway this goes a bit too much to theology which is worst kind of pseudo-rationality. You can argue about it forever like two churches have done.

I think best way to present Christianity is that it is automatically founded in Constantinople, if it does not exist then in Rome. Idea is that if Rome and Byzantine exist then there should be two kind of Christianity, otherwise only one.

I use Greek Catholic as the term as too not confuse it with the myriad of Christian creeds that label themselves as "Orthodox". Greek because in this game it is founded in Konstantipoulis.

I think the simplest solution (someone else mentioned this) would have the Greek Church labelled simply as "Christianity" before Roman Church breaks off.
It would be nice to have Ecumenical Councils and all, but I think Leoreth is finish in this area of the Mod.

...But I like brainstorming anyway.

Ecumenical Councils actually represent the AP game Mechanics much more accurately when you think about it. 5 Patriarchs, innumerable Bishops & Theologians from Civilizations around the world participating in heated discussion and debate.
As opposed to a handful of Cardinals, overwhelmingly Italian, electing the new Pope, usually Italian, in the highest secrecy.
Also why does AP still give free hammers? No good reason to take other Christianities, really.

 

[civ_king]

I use Greek Catholic as the term as too not confuse it with the myriad of Christian creeds that label themselves as "Orthodox". Greek because in this game it is founded in Konstantipoulis.

I think the simplest solution (someone else mentioned this) would have the Greek Church labelled simply as "Christianity" before Roman Church breaks off.
It would be nice to have Ecumenical Councils and all, but I think Leoreth is finish in this area of the Mod.

...But I like brainstorming anyway.

Ecumenical Councils actually represent the AP game Mechanics much more accurately when you think about it. 5 Patriarchs, innumerable Bishops & Theologians from Civilizations around the world participating in heated discussion and debate.
As opposed to a handful of Cardinals, overwhelmingly Italian, electing the new Pope, usually Italian, in the highest secrecy.
Also why does AP still give free hammers? No good reason to take other Christianities, really.

It's Greek Orthodox bro

You mean before they split.

 

[alpav]

I use Greek Catholic as the term as too not confuse it with the myriad of Christian creeds that label themselves as "Orthodox". Greek because in this game it is founded in Konstantipoulis.

What do you mean by this? If you mean Russian, Serbian, Romanian Orthodox etc... they are all the exact same and have the same belief only different regional saints. Russian priests for example can give services in a Greek church if there is no priest from the Senior countries such as Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia.

It's Greek Orthodox bro
You mean before they split.

Don't get into this please. We're gonna have a huge argument about who split off from who.
Also in Orthodoxy, we never refer to the pope as a patriarch.

 

[civ_king]

What do you mean by this? If you mean Russian, Serbian, Romanian Orthodox etc... they are all the exact same and have the same belief only different regional saints. Russian priests for example can give services in a Greek church if there is no priest from the Senior countries such as Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia.



Don't get into this please. We're gonna have a huge argument about who split off from who.
Also in Orthodoxy, we never refer to the pope as a patriarch.

Let's just say they split instead of arguing who split from who

 

[alpav]

Let's just say they split instead of arguing who split from who

Yep leave it at that.
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