D+3 Classic SG: The Future Roman Superpower

I was unable to download the file, maybe because I don't have a username at Apolyton. This was of minor importance - I was almost done playing when I read Tim's message. Now there's just one turn left and I should finish everything tomorrow. Some teasers:

* All caravans sent to a single civ. Was this successful?
* Gold acquired and spent
* Many techs acquired by many civs
* Barbarians spotted attacking
* The game's pace is starting to pick up a bit
* Wonders were built - but by whom?

 

Since it sounds like Viking is almost done and I believe it will be my turn next, can someone please tell me the 'right' way to upload the file so it shows up as an attachment instead of an embedded link(or point me to the proper directions if they exist somewhere). I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and I'd like to do it right this time.

TIA

 

A quiet set of turns. We are really small compared to the AI civs where cities bigger than 12 are starting to appear.

320 AD (0): Start irrigating near Rome to speed Rome's rate of growth. Pisae settler will found a city in the north, partly to reduce the danger from possible barbs to the core cities.

340 AD (1): Carthaginians capture the Indian city of Chittagong and acquire gunpowder. Aztecs acquire it from the GL. Veii grows to size 4 thanks to WLTP. Rush buy settlers there.

360 AD (2): Persians acquire HBR. We get 100 gold as a gift from the Germans. Decide to send all of the caravans to the Carthaginians since visiting the Germans first and then the Carthaginians takes a lot of time. Give astronomy and currency to the Indians in exchange for gunpowder and feudalism. The Indians demand monotheism - refused. They are worshipful so exchange maps.

380 AD (3): Nothing to note.

400 AD (4): The Persians have nearly completed ST.

420 AD (5): Aztecs abandon LW. Susa (Persian) builds ST, Germans abandon it. Indian government overthrown.

440 AD (6): Germans develop sanitation. City of Viroconium founded. Neapolis dye to Cartenna (demanded): 112 gold. Somewhat disappointing. Rush buy some stuff. Acquire sanitation, banking and medicine from the Germans in exchange for invention, bridge building and monotheism. The Aztecs acquire some of these via the GL. 100 gold from the Germans.

460 AD (7): Germans start LW. Carthaginian coastal city of Rusucurru discovered, it demands the two caravans aboard the caravel. However, there's civil disorder over there. The land route is probably too dangerous so wait and see if it recovers.

480 AD (8): Japan develops university. Aztecs start LW. Persians develop sanitation. The Indians offer us 150 gold for declaring war on the Carthaginains. Declined. Antium revolts. Arrrghhh! Rusucurru remains in disorder. Ravenna copper to Rusucurru despite this, D: 80 gold.

500 AD (9): Indians develop banking. Order restored in Antium by building a temple, the first non-wonder city improvement (!). Rusucurru no longer revolting. Antium silk delivered there (D: 150). We get a gift of 50 gold from the Germans. The Japanese have university which we don't have so talk to them - they demand 400 gold. No way!

520 AD (10): Japanese switch to despotism and revolt again.


Two AI civs are building LW which would be nice to have but it's not a 'must have' wonder. I've been acquiring lots of $$ from the Germans and have taken some risks by refusing their demands. In retrospect this may have been too risky because if they declare war we are in big trouble (EDIT: In retrospect a war might actually be a good thing because they have almost no $$ while we have some - capturing a city of two would be nice).

I delivered three caravans to the Carthaginians. A caravel with three more caravans is heading towards them but it's a bit tempting to send it further south. May not be a good idea because there are no settlers aboard. Having more caravels for a rudimentary ship chain would be nice.

I acquired lots of techs via exchanges. One consequence is that some of the AI civs now can build LW but I thought the techs were worth it. Taxes were kept at maximum, except when I delivered the caravans. Several cities can now celebrate and grow, meaning they would be a good source of settlers to use for founding new cities. For this reason a city like Antium is building settlers - we are extremely small and really need to expand. There are many nice city sites on our island/continent, especially in the east but also in the north. One problem: Rome isn't producing any shields. I ignored this and focused on food.

We have no military units so if the barbs show up we may be in trouble even though we have plenty of gold for buying stuff.

Regarding attachments: I simply clicked 'Manage Attachments', a window showed up where I entered a filename (f:\CA_A520.SAV in my case) in 'Upload File from your Computer' and clicked 'Upload'. About 30 seconds later that file was in the list of 'Current Attachments so I clicked 'Close this window' at upper right. Then 'Submit reply' and the SAV file is hopefully going to be there (EDIT: This worked!). If you take too long doing this you may get logged off so compose the reply in advance in Notepad, Wordpad or something like that. If this doesn't work I will be surprised. Maybe try zipping the file and attaching the resulting ZIP file instead of renaming the file to .TXT.

Tim plays next. That also marks the start of a new 'round' and he should IMO play 10 turns. However, given the experience from the previous game we should soon reduce the number of turns per player from the current 10 down to something like 6-8.

 

Start: 24 citizens, 5 settlers, 4 vans 420+g
producing 51g (50 net) at 60% tax 40% luxuries. Mfg: 24MT

520ad (Turn 0)-tweak some workers - get Rome producing some sheilds again.
- tax 5/0/5 to get a couple celebrations rolling
- rush harbors in Neaoplis, Ravenna, Antium
- Carthage (6) - fuss about Indians; give navigation - up to worshipful; update maps
- dang - they immediately go down to cordial again. I seriously wonder if we shouldn't build the Eiffel Tower.
- My idea to send vans overland to demanding Carth cities seems doomed due to the huge number of C troops standing around, blocking the way. Going by sea will take too long to get to the bigger cities.
- Hmm… after some quick counting, it looks like we can make it to at least one Indian city in 10 turns. Off we go!

- Those who disapprove of map clicking analysis, um...don't read this next part…

Spoiler :

This map is pissing me off much the same way GOTM 72 did, if you know what I mean.

We need to start settlements to cross the Indian continent into the southern sea. We will need multiple cities on the southern side of the island to sail farther south.

On the plus side, the southern nations are not a threat to us militarily at this point.

I hope to get a couple settlers on a boat towards the area NW of Hyderabad (even though that leads to another inland sea before reaching the south - but canal cities can clearly be made from lake 23 to southern ocean 17). We may also want to look into the black space between hyderabad and bangalore. The continent appears to be pretty narrow in spots there. I just don't know if there is any fertile land.

540 (1)-Japan republic
- Harbor: Ravenna, Neapolis, Antium
- WLTCD in Neapolis, Veii
- Thought about diverting one van to carts, but with them in despotism, payouts will likely be tiny. The next player should have a ton of money at their disposal since I won't be able to deliver anything until the very end.

560(2)-Germans develop physics
- War between Germany and Carthage ends.
- WLTCD in Ravenna
- Luxuries up to 60% for even more happy-fun-time!
- build settler back into rome to get to size 3
- rush harbor in Veii

580(3)-largest civs? We are 7- hopeless
- Veii harbor
- WLTCD in Rome

600(4)-Carthage develops war code
- Germans back at war with Carthage.
- Indians abandon Leo, then restart it
- Indians get University from Japan (->Aztec GL) for Gunpowder, Peace
- WLTCD in Cumae
- Pompeii builds a ship for the eastern side of the island
- Germans: Exchange feudalism for Physics; Carthage war? No; Demand gunpowder? No. gift? 100g

620(5)-German camel approaches Hispalis, wants to chat: blah, blah, Carthage, blah, gunpowder, NO!
- build settler back into Hispalis to size 3.

640(6)-Indians develop monotheism
- Hispalis Dye
- WLTCD in Hispalis
- Celebration cancelled in Veii (workers were reassigned once it reached size 8)

660(7)-Settlers: Antium
- Pop > 2M
- 2 settlers set sail from Antium to start colonizing the south. Note: Veii settler has 2 or 3 turns precharged. Antium settler has 1 turn precharge to improve the new locale before settling

680(8)-WLTCD cancelled in Ravenna(size 8), Cumae (Out of food - needs harbor to grow further)
- Neapolis market
- Rome Silk
- Ravenna builds horse which jumps on board with the southbound settlers.
- Food surplus stopped in Pompeii to get more shields there and in Antium (should have done this a couple turns ago) - need to improve food and trade for pompeii to grow, or build its settler back into the city. Until then, food surplus isn't really helping
- Persians develop astronomy
- Germans not giving while camel is in our territory

700(9)-Cumae Dye
- Settlers: Veii
- Celebration growth has all stopped.
- taxes back to 6/0/4 - now making 97g/turn (91 net)
- Another German caravan is at Hispalis - could bribe for 120g.
- Hire an einstein to pick tech

720(10)-Germans nearly complete Leo
- virconomium disorder at size 3 hire an elvis to keep working shield squares
- remaining celebrations end
- Research -> Theology
- Veii copper to Madras (D-484) - Very nice, that should be more than enough to finish current tech.
- do NOT deliver silk until after current tech learned next turn.



- Well, my goals were not lofty, but at least I achieved them. Mainly I felt we needed some major growth in our core cities and get some gold for improving our infrastructure. We went from 24 citizens to 58. Production is now 51MT, taxes net 91g/turn. I was hoping to end with more settlers than I started with, but at least we are back to the same number. 4 vans are out in boats - two are near India, while 2 are sailing out from our eastern side near carthage. These vans should give the next player a significant cash infusion for the next set of turns if delivered well. (There are also a couple vans looking for the next boat out of town)

- My recommendations for that cash is to invest in more vans, possibly Bach, marketplaces, and maybe harbors in the smaller towns to get them growing as well. Some more settlers will be needed too. They'll probably need to irrigate their home cities to get food to support them.

- Do NOT deliver any more vans until next turn. We should have enough beakers to finish Theology this turn. (Make sure we have at least one einstein to finish the tech.) One thing I didn't consider until the last turn or so: at this level, the extra arrows from good trade routes can practically make the difference between disorder and celebrations. Delivering to good trade civs like germany and india might be worth more than making a demand delivery to carthage where the routes are only +1 or +2. Just something to consider when deciding what to do with the dye vans near carthage. One was originally going to Gades, but at this point I'm not sure. That one is probably ok, but I'd probably send the second down towards india even if there's no demand.

- If you want to, the dip still has movement so if you want to bribe the german caravan, you can still do it for 122g. Now that I think about it, we have a house rule against AI unit bribes, don't we? Eh, forget what I just said.

- Germany wouldn't give gifts last time I checked. I'm assuming it's because they have camels walking through our territory - I've found that to be a factor for gifts in the past. Also, for what it's worth, Germany is scheduled to complete Leo's workshop next turn.

- There's a boat with 2 settlers heading south to start colonizing the empty portions of the Indian continent. - it's the only large swath of available land left. Note the comments from turn 7 above that both settlers have some work precharged on them, so improve a little before founding the city. They have a horse with them for a feeble attempt at protection (or more likely you can use it for hut popping). Personally I would probably found a city with one settler, then improve around that city with the second. Once the city reaches size 2, build the 2nd settler into the city to push it to size 3. RB a harbor (may also need a market) so it can celebrate and grow quickly, giving us a settler factory for our colonization efforts.

- I've got a couple settlers trying to give Neapolis a few shields by planting a forest (mining) the grassland/river square. It's such a potentially strong city, I don't want it to languish too long with only one shield.

 

A quick look, and I see our rep is dishonourable - ? Thought we were going to keep spotless.

Ah - a look at past saves shows me it was due to the "shrinking phase" of our civ. Nuff said. Makes things a bit trickier for negotiations I guess. Maybe we want to get Eiffel got get the reputation back up???? (Can't believe I'm saying this...)

 

My thoughts exactly (Both thinking maybe we should do it, and disbelief that I was seriously considering it )

 

Very nice set of turns, we are still far behind the AI civs but not quite as far behind as we were 10-20 turns ago. I doubt the benefits of the Eiffel Tower outweigh its costs.

I think we should build Bach ASAP, then we can switch to democracy once we discover it without first discovering magnetism. Unhappiness will also be easier to handle but we really need some temples and markets now. Possibly also some aqueducts once we have Bach.

And finally: Expand, expand, expand! We now have the resources for moderate expansion, both colonies (one of the caravels) and in the eastern part of our island where corruption (while in republic) is not going to be a big problem.

One problem that needs to be addressed is the fact that currently Pompeii can't grow bigger (reassign some workers?).

Slightly off-topic: It occurred to me that not allowing map exchanges would make these games far more challenging. An idea for a possible future succession game (I have more new ideas).

Sharkbait plays next.

 

Agreed

Fixed. I don't think temples are of very much value. We probably get more benefit from the additional arrows of one good trade route than we get from a temple.

Edit to add: Building Bach will also make temples even less of a priority

You could build the pompeii supported settler back into the city. The benefits would be twofold: It will get you to size 3 immediately, and it would free up a couple more food surplus for growth. The city probably still needs a harbor to get enough trade to grow more than a couple citizens.

 

I've played my 10 turns, and will try and post the save and log this evening.

The first half of the turns went as you would expect from the setup Tim left me, but then I had to make a decision about chasing a wonder, which you may or may not approve of. I had some food vans lying around though, so I thought I might be able to finish before the end of my turns. The wonder will be completed next turn, and there is a fair bit of cash about for the next player too. And 5 vans and a settler on their way southwards.

The Germans started giving again, which was nice.

I also had a nice bit of luck down south too...

Details to follow.

 

OK here it is. Bach then Democracy was my first aims, and then halfway through I decided I wanted Darwin as our research is pretty pathetic and I wanted Magnetism.

720(0) - RB vans in most cities and aqueduct in Neapolis. Van dropped off by Madras, and Indians come calling. Give Physics in response to their demand and swap map.

Germans learn Steam Engine, Berlin builds Leo's (no chance to get).

740(1) - Theology -> Democracy.
Ravenna silk to Madras (d) =624g.
Veii dye to Gades (D) =244g, but the demand is gone. Other van heads south.

760(2) - Antium copper to Calcutta (D) +428g. Tech done. RB a few vans from scratch, and RB a settler.

Germans send wool to Antium in exchange for gold (think we're on the short end of the deal there!).

780(3) - Democ -> Magnetism. Virconium builds settler. Democracy established. Lux to 60% as otherwise Pompeii will riot and starve at the same time! (This is where I should have read the last part of Tim's post about adding the settler back here or at least founding somthing with the pesky little fellow).

7 food and 1 dye van go towards Bach in Antium (the dye demand globally was at a historical low). Visit India, gift Sanitation and Democracy.

800(4) - Bach built. Indians learn Steam Engine.

820(5) - Germans land a couple of units NE of Hispalis. Aztecs start SoL.

840(6) - Gift Theology to Germans, get 25g in return. 2 boats with 5 vans and 1 settler set sail southwards.

Horse tips hut on the Indian continent - AT (Lugdunum)! TSL 20/30/50. RB aqueduct in Antium. Germans learn Railroad and start Darwins.

860(7) - I decide to vist the Germans and get Railroad off them so I could go for Darwin. Swapped for it by giving Theology, and gift Democracy, get 25g. TSL 60/0/40.

A bunch of wars between the AI civs end.

880(8) - 25g from the Germans. Not much else.

900(9) - Lutetia founded.

Munich sends gems to Rome for gold (a bit better this time). Indians do democratic.

920(10) - Byzantium founded. 2 settlers built into Lugdunum down south - will celebrate next turn. 50g from Germans.

Visit Indians, swap RR for University, give Med and Theo. End.

First of all, I confess to ignoring Pompeii's plight. It is growing slowly now, but the settler hasn't really done anything that special so I should have used it found another city or built it back in like Tim said.

Secondly, I haven't mentioned above that Darwin's will be built next turn in Rome. Our tech isn't going anywhere fast at the moment so I wanted to kick start it and particularly to get Magnetism. Then we can kick those old ships (disband down south) and create a few galleons.

Lugdunum is going to celebrate next turn, so a settler can be churned ou there soon and a new city founded. Another settler is not that far away either.

There's about 400g in the bank to spend too.

Here's the save (still feeling guilty about Pompeii - those folks never get a break):

 

An interesting choice of wonder - I'm not sure it's worth the expenses but getting magnetism sure will be nice. At last we are starting to look a bit like a superpower but we really need some aqueducts to make our cities grow. Also I think we should add some military units in our core cities now that we have cash - especially in Rome and Antium (wonders) and Neapolis (big city).

I'm a bit disappointed the AI civs haven't grown bigger but at least the Carthaginians are fairly big and the Aztecs have size 20+ cities so we still have a long way to go.

Old n Slow plays next. Given the experience from the previous game I suggest we now reduce the number of turns per player from 10 to 8.

 

Ok -- glad I checked in.

Let's see what makes sense at this stage...

 

920 -- Hmm will get Darwin's on the click; we're behind, so the challenge is still on. Opted for eight turns as a new standard.

940 (1) -- Get Darwin's (opt to switch a citizen to a wise guy just to see how bad the science rate is -- hmmm not exciting.) We get our Mag; next choice is Ind, Chem, Chiv, Eco, TG -- we choose Ind. Next choice is Metal, Chem, Chiv, Commy, TG -- we choose Metal. normally I disdain DV as too many camels for too few advances, but in this case it worked out surprisingly well. Goal for my term of office is to upgrade the fleet.

960 (2) -- Dye: Hispalis to Delhi = 491

980 (3) -- Talk to the Aztecs & swap our two new techs for Chem & TG (refresh the map while we're there.)

1000 (4) -- Spend some coins thoughout the administration -- popping out some road builders, some new transports, and of course, some camels.

1020 (5) -- move, etc.

1040 (6)-- India completes INC

1060 (7) -- move, etc.

1080 (8) -- Still some buying left. We have 8 settlers -- the two up north of Cumae were to road for a day & then go north (I like 81, 5 for two Whales, myself); the roadie next to Luteia was to fold in after this space (the city just went to size 2, blew up and now has recovered.) The two guys outside Lug could road a little more, then found something -- I'm thinking of a road or RR from Lug to India markets. Should be able to land a camel or few for $$ & tech -- If demanded dye nets about $500, then the demanded Silk should be worth a bit more. We only have about half the boats we need for a decent boat chain -- I split the attention between boats, camels and roadies -- we almost have a complete road network connecting the far reaches -- someday we'll have RR.

 

Things are gradually improving, I would really love to get into a war against someone soon . We are still behind the other civs so capturing some cities would be nice.

Also we have a very valuable foothold (Lugdunum) on the Indian continent. I think we should immediately start expanding there by using both settlers over there to found a size 2 city. Then rushbuy a settler in Lugdunum and add it to the new city, thus 'jumpstarting' it to size 3 so it can immediately start celebrating and growing.

Also we really need explosives ASAP. This should probably be followed by founding cities using all of the settlers we currently have.

A new idea: In hindsight it would have been a very interesting challenge not to allow exchanging maps with the AI civs.

Duke plays next (8 turns), unless the unexpected happens and Kev shows up.

 

Hopefully I didn't miss too much with the log:

1080AD - (0) – Production for some cities changed. Workers changed. Some rush buying.


1100AD – (1) – Some rush buying. Caravans moved forward.

Japanese develop Bridge Building
Germans Develop University
Persians Develop Gunpowder.
Indians want to meet. They want us to Ally, declare war on the Carth’s and will pay us 500 gold. Shoot, I don’t know where we stand with the Carth’s. We certainly aren’t trading with them anymore. Agreed.


1120AD – (2) – Pompei and Lutetia built up to size 3 with Settlers to start celebrations. Rome Silk(D) to Delhi for 924 gold. Ravenna Coal(U) – Delhi – 310.

Indians Develop Explosives.
Indians swap Explosives for Industrialization with Aztecs.

Metallurgy discovered. Electricty picked.


1140AD – (3) – Hispalis Silk(D) – Karachi – 636. Persian Elephant shows up near Lugdunum. Diplomat Rushbuilt while the ship stays to take the attack. Brundisium built near Lugdunum for easier caravan transport. Naepolis Salt(U) – Delhi – 414. Rome Wine(U) – Delhi – 331. Meet with Aztecs; trade Metallurgy for Explosives. Maps traded.

Indians start WS.
Germans unload Caravel near Hispalis.

Electrcicty discovered. Economics picked.


1160AD – (4) – Syracuse built. No sign of the Elephant near Lugdunum. German diplomat expelled.

Aztecs nearly complete SoL.


1180AD – (5) – Movement and IPRB.

Germand and Carths end war.
Aztecs build SoL.
Germans change to WS.
Indians develop Magnetism.


1200AD – (6) – Movement and IPRB.

Germans develop Communism. Cancels MP.
Aztecs brag about Conscription.
Indians nearly done with WS. Indians capture Persian city of Dariush Kabir.


1220AD – (7) – Elephant appears near Lugdunum again, this time slightly damaged. It now dawns on me that we aren’t allowed to bribe units anyway, so the Dip was very stupid. Meet with Persians, they want railroad. Sure, please build them around your cities so when we come to visit they are already in place. Thank you. Cease Fire offered; accepted. Peace only if we declare war on Indians; nope.
Pisae Silk(D) – Delhi – 840.

Indians build WS.
Germans change to UN.


1240AD – (8) – Ravenna Wool(D) – Delhi – 710. Hispalis Wine(U) – Delhi – 250. Pompeii Silk(D) – Delhi – 812.
Caravans rush built to try and get UN before Germans.

The Corporation discovered, Conscription picked.


1260AD – Moved caravans into city for UN and completed the path for the freight deliveries. We now have a ship chain that goes from Ravenna to the Indians in one turn. A couple more rail lines built around them and we should be able to build and deliver freight on the same turn. The plan was to build a city at (76,44) to save us two ships along our ship chain. The existing settlers can be sent forward to build this city/buff the newest cities up to size 3 for growth.
Met with Aztecs, traded Electricity for Conscription; swapped maps. I don’t remember what happens if we make deliveries if there is no tech slated to be worked on. The Cumae Dye was heading towards Karachi since it demands Dye. Pompeii’s Wine is going to Kolhapur. Bombay takes Spice. Lots of caravans in the area to play with.

We should be well on our way to fund anything we want to try now. We need lots more cities and troops. If anyone decides to land in our core cities we are toast.

 

Nice set of turns - we are well and truly back. I was looking at the previous save and thinking that there was a lot of different things that needed doing, and you did them!

Time for an explosion of engineers methinks.

 

So it's again my turn to play. Nice set of turns but I'd have loved to play maybe 10-15 turns from now. Despite this there's one and one thing only that I'm going to try to accomplish, something I didn't get to do last time we played a succession game.

So:

PREPARE FOR WAR!

 

No reaction to the bold statement I made above so here is an update:

I'm on turn 5 now. A lot may still happen but here is a 'teaser' based on what has happened so far:

* A major decision has to be made on this turn
* We have several new cities, wonders and units
* Our military is probably about 100 times more powerful than it was when I took over (back then the only military unit we had that could attack was a single phalanx).
* New lands have been explored
* The world's political/diplomatic situation is considerably more messy than it was when I took over. It may get significantly more messy before I finish. It will be up to my successor to sort this out (sounds familiar? )
* A lot of cash has been made; even more cash has been spent
* An important 'new' military unit has appeared for the first time in the game.

I will probably not have time to finish playing until next weekend.

 

This is what I expected I would be inheriting (especially when I saw Duke was willing to declare war on Carthage for a handful of gold coins, setting the stage for you), thus I felt no need to react to your statement. If you had said "I'm building the Eiffel Tower and repairing our reputation, prepare for Pax Norseman!!!" You would have definitely gotten a reaction.

Why do I have this sneaking suspicion you were able to research Espionage, Nuke Fission, and build a certain wonder. We all know: + =

Take your time.

 

I'm almost finished playing and will post the game tomorrow. The game situation has become rather interesting and it sure looks different from the last succession game we played.

Some teasers:

* We now have a few more wonders than last time I posted
* A big and risky decision was taken on turn 5
* The world's political and diplomatic situation is even more messy than it was last time I posted.
* We have a navy now
* The enemy capitals are fewer than when I started playing
* We have been sneak attacked