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D+3 Classic SG: The Future Roman Superpower

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by TheViking, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    Reign of an ultra-militaristic Viking

    Summary: Researching nothing, will be getting UN next turn. The only military unit we have that can attack is a single phalanx!! We have 1916 gold so a lot can be spent. Major decisions delayed until next turn when we get the UN.

    1260 AD (0): Move some caravans around but delay delivering them until I know the status of science and international politics next turn. Change some worker assignments and rush buy engineers. Start wartime preparations by rush buying and starting barracks in a few cities.

    1280 AD (1): We build the UN, the Germans abandon it. Pick esionage ahead of electronics (a difficult choice). Veii settler added to Brundisium which grows to size 2, Veii engineers also added to jumpstart celebrations over there. Veii spice to Bombay (D; 688 gold). Lutetia silk to Delhi (D; 980 gold).

    1300 AD (2): Japanese acquire invention from the Russians. Persians acquire seafaring from the Japanese. Japanese and Persians sign peace treaty. Japanese acquire railroad from the Persians. Persians acquire WC from the Japanese. Germans develop economics. Persians acquire university from the Japanese. Japanese acquire COL from the Persians. Indians develop atomic theory. We discover espionage, electronics next. Our population exceeds 7 million and we are now no. 5 in population. City of Palmyra founded. Hispalis gold to Delhi (ND; 250 gold). War preparations, rush buy some stuff, some of it from scratch.

    1320 AD (3): Rome dye to Bengal (D; 664). ARRGHHH!! Munich turns out to be heavily defended (4 musketeers) and is building city walls. However, they shouldn't be finished when we attack...

    1340 AD (4): Aztecs start Eiffel Tower. Our population exceeds 8 million. Cumae dye to Karachi (D; 579 gold). Germans land near Hispalis. Attempt to prevent them from possibly blocking our rail lines by placing some units there. City of Palermo founded for strategic purposes. Berlin turns out to be defended by 5 musketeers (probably veteran) so several more cannons are needed. Spy on the Indians, Delhi and Bombay turn out not to be particularly well defended. Neapolis gold to Delhi (ND; 538). Now it's absolutely certain that electronics will be discovered next turn.

    1350 AD (5): Persians develop banking. The Indians start Eiffel. We discover electronics, choose steel. Talk to the Germans, they request conscription. NO!! Our secrets are our own. We then cancel the alliance and attempt to attack. Success!! The Hawk party loves this and our reputation drops to atrocious :D. One cannon lost attacking Berlin. ARRRGHHH!! Munich is now filled with units that got withdrawn when the alliance was dissolved so we can't capture it. Berlin captured and with it the pyramids, Cope and Leo. Some units get upgraded. We sign a peace treaty (thanks UN!). One problem: Our shipchains have been breached. Really need Eiffel (!) now. Wine to Kolhapur (demanded; 1112 gold). A major decision is reached: To attack the Indians too.

    1380 AD (6): Japanese develop monotheism. The Germans sneak attack and kill something and the Indians declare war on them. Carthaginians develop chivalry. Indians develop metallurgy. Pisae spice to Karachi (ND; 436 gold). Munich captured, 52 gold plundered. Peace with the Germans. Indian horsemen spotted west of Berlin.

    1400 AD (7): Germans develop conscription and sneak attack. The Indians have nearly completed Eiffel. Persian elephant just east of Caesaraugusta. Steel discovered. Rush build cruiser in Ravenna because of two German ironclads between Ravenna and Palmyra. Talk to the Indians and be as rude as possible. Then cancel the alliance and sneak attack, thanks to the Hawk party. Rome buys the Eiffel Tower for 1172 gold to annoy the Indians a bit more :D.

    1420 AD (8): Someone develops physics. Rome builds Eiffel Tower and the Aztecs and Indians abandon it. Our reputation improves from atrocious to poor. Pisae copper to Bombay (D; 748 gold). Viroconium silk to Delhi (D; 970 gold). City walls in Delhi destroyed. Delhi captured and we acquire atomic theory and the colossus. No partisans show up, unlike the Germans. Indian government escapes to Karachi. Two German ironclads destroyed near Ravenna. Rush build cruiser in Pompeii in order to sink a German ironclad next turn. Cannon production sabotaged in Bombay. Bengal is defended by a single musketeer and Bombay with three musketeers. Neither city has city walls or barracks so they are tempting targets. City of Caesarea founded, can be used as a base for operations against the Carthaginians in the future (at the moment I didn't want to found a city closer to them).

    As should be obvious, my play was far from optimal because I decided to have some fun. This made it necessary to build up an army at a very rapid pace to accomplish what I wanted in only 8 turns. Therefore I had to buy lots of stuff 'from scratch', mainly barracks, cannons, riflemen, spies and transports. Also the Germans were researching conscription so there was a very time-limited 'window' I had before things became much more difficult. One consequence of this is that we don't have many caravans left because lots of cash was spent on the military and not much was left for caravans. Delhi, the best destination for caravans (it has the colossus), now belongs to us. This means it should be grown to a bigger size ASAP and caravans from there sent south (automobile will be fun!).

    We now have a whole range of possible ways to proceed. The Indians don't have conscription yet so we have a 'window' to attack them and capture a few more cities. For geographic reasons (and taking already completed railroads into account) I recommend capturing Bombay and Bengal ASAP (they are easy targets) and then possibly pausing a bit. We also need a city on the southern coast of the Indian continent.

    The Germans have become a major nuisance. Their navy is dangerous and regularly troops have landed near Hispalis. Therefore we need some cruisers, they are also useful in general to guard our empire from enemies.

    Another problem is that our forces are spread dangerously thin. Our core cities are a big sitting duck although the situation has improved sligthly - an enemy could capture a few cities but at least we probably could quickly mount a counterattack. We really need to strenghten our defenses there because thanks to my strategy we are at war against almost everyone, including our former allies :D. In particular I'm afraid of the Carthaginians, they are big (over 20 cities) and they usually have a big navy and build lots of colonies. I took some steps towards strengthening our defenses on turn 8 by rush buying a few military units in some of our core cities.

    Also there are lots of nice to have wonders available, in particular Hoover and possibly AS. I captured a highly useful wonder (Leo).

    We have a few rather unhappy cities but I have found temples to be highly useful in those cases (delivering caravans is too but building and delivering them can take more time).

    Tim plays next (8 turns). Have fun! :D

    Attached Files:

  2. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Oct 14, 2005
    New Zealand
    Hehe - a very interesting position! I think Tim will be doing some serious pondering before making his moves. Not sure where I'd start - probably try and race to some violent techs and keep the slaughter going. I've never been much of a fan for cannons - so feeble defensively. The Carths have Chivalry which would be a handy part of that tech path.

    However, Combustion, Auto, Mass Production and Nuclear Fission has a certain charm! :nuke:
  3. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    You're not kidding. I've been staring at this thing for the last couple nights trying to figure out what to make of it. I finally started making some changes last night, but have yet to really do much. I expected to be at war, but not on this many fronts (and not with an arsenal of only 11 cannons, most of them damaged :twitch: )

    I have started putting together my ideas of how to proceed. It's not how I normally like to play, so they're probably not the best ideas (or the best execution of them), but I'll be giving it the old college try.
  4. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    If everyone is in a state of shock (as seems to be the case) after I played my turns I'm happy :lol:. One of the fun things about succession games is running into situations you rarely (or never) encounter in your own games. Also I have probably ensured that this game will be at least a bit different from some of the earlier succession games.

    Actually I'm not quite sure how I would proceed here if I were playing :D. At first probably with a combination of strengthening the defenses in the core cities, capturing two more Indian cities and securing the German front. Attacking the Germans either is or will soon be difficult - they have just discovered conscription. Attacking their coastal cities with cruisers might be fun though.

    Not while I was playing because I rush bought lots of units 'from scratch' so the ability to buy horsemen and switching to something else was useful. Actually I'd love to be able to buy warriors (they are one of my favourite units :D).

    For those interested here are some maps. First our core cities:

    As can be seen our defenses aren't exactly robust.

    The German front:

    The situtation is better here. We should be fairly safe, especially after we add riflemen to the fortress directly south of Leipzig. This can be done next turn. Oops! - wrote the text above too soon, now I realize that Palermo (strategically a very important city) is undefended...

    The Indian front:

    Our spies revealed that we should be fairly safe here, at least at the moment. There are no attacking units in Bombay and Bengal. Actually we should be able to capture those cities in a turn or two if we want to.
  5. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    It's not so much a state of shock as it is bemusement. I was chuckling all through reading your account and looking at what the situation was. I understand perfectly why you did what you did. One of the other fun things about succession games is taking actions during your turns, knowing that you don't have to deal with the consequences.

    See, this is another advantage to succession games. You've already had your fun, so you're not sure where to go next, and you're looking at shoring things up. I'm just starting, so I see a whole slew of reckless possibilities to pursue in my precious few turns. :nya:

    Yeah, I really wish there was a way to keep these cheap units around longer for rushbuying. Whether we go steal chivalry or not, it won't be too long until the horse slot is gone, and we've got some serious production/support issues, making rushbuying all the more important.

    Especially when you keep in mind that two of the cities with flags (Rome, Ravenna) have only spies in them. :run:

    Oops! I probably should have read this before starting to play...:blush: :cringe: :sad:
  6. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    Just to let everybody know, I'm making progress, but haven't had a lot of time to play lately. I usually get more time in over the weekend than any other time, and with the holiday and some other stuff, I got almost nothing done this past weekend. I'm currently around turn 6 (I think) and have reached a fairly major decision point (and I'm leaning toward deciding nothing for 2 turns and leaving it for the next player... ;) )
  7. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Feb 4, 2002
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Might be nice to leave at least one large Indian market for our Roman goods; hmmmm if those cannons turn into arty units, they might be worth saving -- so they could be ok in the long run.

    The race for me will be whether I finish the taxes before Tim and Sharkbait will finish their turns.
  8. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    - Engineers as the first line of defense?
    - Don't count on any unit upgrades anytime soon.
    - I couldn't keep up the war against Germany
    - Actually, our Italians are no longer at war with either the Germans or Japanese...is a new axis forming?
    - Who controls the invisible hand?
  9. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    This is interesting to say the least. Seems to imply that we somehow lost Berlin to an enemy although due to the AI's stupidity I have a hard time imagining how that could possibly happen (in contrast, imagining how we could lose several of our core cities to someone is easy).

    I'm not surprised the war against the Germans ended though. The Senate might have intervened, also the terrain there sucks and they have conscription.
  10. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    Pretty much the entire world is at war.

    We've backstabbed every civ north of the equator at some point in the last two reigns.

    Deep breath. To be at war on this many fronts, we must have some seriously kickass war techs and a huge army!

    We're fighting with cannons? How many? Eleven?!? And almost half of them are healthy? O….K….Serenity now. Serenity now. I guess we are a major trading power, then.

    Right. 3 freights, only 4 under production (none with more than 11 sheilds, and that's in a city with no trade goods available to be supplied.).

    Piece of cake!

    1420 (0)
    - Need a little more cash - Rome can provide a demanded Gems van, but ship chain is all messed up. Will rush a couple vans from cities where demand might hold up. Will have to hold off taking Bengal at least one turn to accommodate delivery.

    - We're building crusaders to go up against muskets and rifles? I don't think so. Make cities with 40s commited produce cannons. Work on a few horses (cheaper) for 4 legged units elsewhere
    - Cities building temples changed to Markets. Have I mentioned, I hate temples.
    - Spend down to around 1000g, every city with sheilds in the box should produce something this turn.
    - and we're ready to roll...

    1440 (1) - German Cannon moves toward berlin, does not attack fort
    - Aztecs develop Economics, Start ASTCo
    - Persians and indians sign peace
    - Carthage unit (elephant?) spotted approaching homeland

    - Market: Byzantium, Lutetia
    - Aqueduct: Pisae, Veii
    - Bank: Neapolis
    - Van: Rome Gems
    - Refining -> Chivalry

    - New pompeii cruiser poaches carth elephant
    - Kill German Cannon approaching Berlin-Leipzig fort
    - Kill german partisan in fort near munich, start engineering eastward from Munich
    - Work on restoring ship chains. Send dye van on long trip toward the "other indian cities".

    - Bombay about to complete cannon - sabotage it.
    - Bengal has a crusader in it now along with musket
    - Most homeland cities set to start a horse

    1460 (2) - German crusader attacks fort near berlin, Engineer(!) Defends...successfully! Vet engineer!
    - German Crusader near heidelburg dies attacking rifle in fort
    - India develops economics
    - Palermo Spy

    - Investigate Carthaginian Himera (size 3, 1 musket about to finish a 2nd)
    - Carthage wants to talk - peacekeeping continues
    - Investigate Rusaddit (Size8 1 musket about to finish a 2nd)
    - Investigate Leipzig (3 muskets, 1 rifle, 1 cannon, close to finishing 2nd rifle.)
    - Investigate Heidelberg - rifle(not fortified), musket, caravel, about to complete rifle, no barracks…Wow, this wasn't the plan, but this is too tempting!
    - Marshal up forces and attack Heidelberg, kill musket and rifle, a lowly horse comes in to kill the caravel just to be rude.
    - fill up as much of the city as we can with units, capture heidelberg, 94g plundered, library, harbor survive. Size 18,
    - 4 partisans, germans talk - peacekeeping continues. Kill 1 of the partisans

    - Cruiser hunts down wounded German ironclad. upgrade to veteran
    - Complete RR to Bengal
    - Rome gems to Bengal (D-996g)
    - Kill Musket at Bengal, 83g plundered, market, aqua survive, size 6
    - indians chat, peacekeeping operations continue
    - rush a ****load of horses (I think 14 more) and a few cannons.

    1480 (3) - Partisan attacks stack at heidelberg at 2/3 strength - we barely hold on.
    - indian cannon from bombay attacks rifle in fort and is victorious :(

    - Van: palmyra Dye
    - Lugdunum engineers
    - Delhi marketplace
    - Berlin Pollution
    - Pop > 14M

    - Kill a couple more German partisans around Heidelberg
    - Investigate Konigsberg: 3 rifles, 2 muskets, building an ironclad - has walls, no barracks
    - Kill cannon near Leipzig.
    - Finally get a Rifle into fort near Leipzig so our engineers don't have to defend there.
    - Leipzig - has 3 muskets, 1 rifle, working on cannon.
    - kill Cannon near Bombay
    - rushbuy in a few places while I still have 20s unit
    - adjust support for a few units due to shield shortages.
    - gold down under 650. Nothing else urgent for scratch rush this turn. Should be able to rush a fair amount next turn
    - Steal Chivalry from Carthaginians (Rusaddit) - horses upgrade to knights, Spy captured
    - Nuremburg confirmed to be very near to Ceasarea.

    1500 (4) - Persians develop chemistry
    - Carths develop leadership. They couldn't have done that one turn earlier? :aargh: :gripe:
    - Indians start ASTCo

    - research -> Leadership
    - Engineers: Bengal
    - Heidelberg Copper
    - Leadership -> Tactics - Knights upgrade to dragoons

    - Leipzig built a cannon, but it's wandering off - Still not sure I could hold the city from partisans if I took it.
    - Byzantium Silk van to Bombay (d-1008g)
    - Cumae Gold to Bombay (nd-386g)
    - Kill 3 muskets at bombay, capture it, Isaac newton's college, 128g plunder, granary, market, Aqueduct
    - dragoons kill indian crusader, upgrade to vet (for a turn)
    - Lahore has 3 muskets, and is rushing a 4th. Will likely need to heal before attacking further
    - Konigsberg - 3 rifles, 1 musket, walls
    - A boat full of 8 former horsemen sets sail from pompei toward frankfurt

    1510 (5) - Harbor: Palmyra
    - Vans: Syracuse gold, Byzantium copper, Lutetia dye, Viroconium salt, Pompeii gold
    - Spy: Neapolis
    - Engineer: Cumae
    - Sewer: Delhi
    - Tactics -> Guerrilla warfare - Upgrade dragoons to cavalry
    - Pop > 15million

    - Vet Cruiser attacks frankfurt, kills rifleman, Cavalry land at frankfurt, kill rifle, transport - 1 vet. fill most surrounding squares to limit partisans and prevent contact
    - Capture frankfurt, 59g plundered, size 9, Library, bank, Colosseum, harbor, use emmissary's ploy
    - kill only partisan near frankfurt
    - Cologne spotted S. of frankfurt, undefended, connected by rail. Walk in and raze it, 5g plundered. emissary ploy again.
    - Sail up from ceasarea, to Nuremberg. Kill defending explorer :rolleyes:, raze city, 5g plundered, Emissary ploy

    - build engineer into palmyra, to start celebration

    - Leipzig now has only 1 rifle, a cannon, and a crusader for defense! (about to build a 2nd rifle) Not sure where the others all went. I was not planning to go at them this turn, but I think I could empty all three cities right now. Konigsberg (3 rifles, walls) is probably the long pole in the tent, although hamburg is also an unknown
    - Problem is, I may not have enough spies to get the walls down and doubt I can control partisans to guarantee Emissary ploy. We'll have to stick with plan to take them when we can better control the situation.

    - Seven vans make the trip down to india to fund the next few turns
    - Lahore now has 4 muskets, and supports a 5th which appears to be just beyond the city. About to build a crusader.
    - add a couple roads in lahore for better trade bonus

    - Heidelberg copper to Lahore (D-876g)
    - Karchi has 8(!) muskets, better trade. Lahore is expendable.
    - Viroconium Salt to Karachi (ND-564g)
    - Syracuse gold to Karachi (nd-412g)
    - That’s' more than enough for current tech.

    - Attack Lahore. Kill all muskets - but used damaged cannons from bombay attack so we lose one. Capture Lahore, 120g plundered, size 7,granary, market, aqua, factory

    - set up mid-processing zoom to city production switcheroo from heidelberg to pisae to munich for insta-partisans

    1520 (6) - Germans develop Corporation
    - German ironclad comes out of konigsberg, stops next to heidelberg. looked like something went back toward leipzig?
    - Spy: Palermo, ravenna
    - market: palmyra
    - Harbor: Ceasaraugusta
    - Van: Syracuse Salt
    - Guerrilla warfare -> Machine tools
    - Engineers: Lugdunum, Heidelberg
    - production switcheroo to partisans
    - aqueduct: Frankfurt
    - pop > 16M

    - RR to leipzig, konigsberg. Leipzig now has 2 rifles and cannon, Konigsberg still has 3 rifles
    - Sabotage konigsberg walls - spy returned
    - Leipzig walls down, spy captured
    - Canal di Viking founded for insta-rails through the swamps into Germany. shortcut road to hamburg completed on the other side.
    - Hamburg is defended by only a rifle, and a caravel!!?!! Not even a barracks. :rotflmao:
    - Cruiser kills rifle at hamburg (vet), cavalry finishes off the caravel. Cannons empty Konigsberg and Leipzig.
    - partisan captures hamburg, 137g plundered, size 20, market, aqua, sewer. 9 partisans around hamburg, Emissary's ploy.
    - 2nd partisan captures Konigsberg, 78g plundered, size 18, market aqua, sewer. 7 partisans around Konigsberg, Emissary's ploy
    - Capture leipzig 24g plundered size 8, barracks, library, bank, colosseum
    - German civilization destroyed
    - all those nasty partisans (and other units in the field) just disappear like magic.

    - Antium Dye to Bangalore (D-1076g)
    - Pompeii gold to Karachi (ND-414g)

    - Rail line completed from Canal di Viking to Leipzig giving a complete rail route through germany. We could send all boats from palermo now as it is farther south and better protected.

    - realize I hadn't sold a couple granaries.
    - I screwed up transport rush in Lahore. Won't be able to make it to japan in my turns. :(
    - EscaDelloSqualo founded (the google italian translation of 'shark bait')
    - spend down below 1000g

    - Talk to japan. Take cease fire. Offer peace…they want industrialization? No, 900g? No. They give it anyway. Hopefully that will secure the seas a bit in the south while we set up shop for longer deliveries and eventual conquest. :deal:
    - lots of rushes, including work on hoovervans

    1530 (7) - aztecs nearly complete Adam Smith Trading Co.
    - Persians develop industrialization
    - Indians develop conscription. (Dangit!)
    - Indian frigate kills engineer near bengal (on the inland lake 23 side). Guess we might need to defend over there after all.

    - spy: ceasarea
    - Aqua: Byzantium
    - Vans: Lutetia Gold, Viroconium gems, Heidelberg wool, Hispalis Oil, Pompeii dye, Neapolis food, Cumae gems, Antium Gold, Veii Gold, Rome Gold,
    - hamburg low on food, builds harbor
    - Bank: Delhi
    - Machine Tools ->Refrigeration - upgrade cannons to artillery
    - Pop > 21M

    - Kolhapur has 3 muskets behind walls
    - Make plan for kolhapur attack next turn. Send two boats of engineers and other units for japan expedition and Kolhapur attack next turn.
    - Sweet. Karachi now has Dye demand!
    - Lutetia dye to Karachi (D-996g)
    - and now wool demand is back.
    - Heidelberg wool to karachi (D-896g)
    - We enter the southern seas for the first time as large mixed-unit contingents head out from lahore (toward japan) and bombay(toward kolhapur)

    - Original plan was to build hoover, but instead we put 4 vans into ASTCo., then buy the rest for 800g. I think it will only shave about 40g/turn off costs - not enough to justify it, but I really just wanted to do it to spite the Aztecs.

    1540 (8) - Vans: Canal di Viking dye, Palermo Silk, Palmyra Copper, Syracuse Dye, Ravenna Gold, Pisae Food, Munich Dye, Berlin Copper
    - Ceasaraugusta Market
    - engineers: Brundisium, Frankfurt
    - Bengal harbor
    - Leipzig builds Adam Smith - Aztecs,Indians Abandon
    - Refrigeration -> Combustion. Now that we've exhausted the upgrades, head toward auto.

    - Continue sailing transport toward japan for settlement, deliveries next turn.
    - 2 kolhapur boats converge on EscaDelloSqualo
    - engineers (most precharged) road and rail from EDS to kolhapur.
    - conveniently enough, the indians have disbanded one of the defending muskets towards crusader which is still not done. Now only 2 defenders.
    - Even with walls, the artillery goes through the muskets fairly easily. One is vet status.
    - Capture kolhapur, 210g plundered. Size 11, library, walls, bank, harbor.

    - RR to frankfurt complete for better eastward access to carthage
    - OK, I think that's enough.

    A large percentage of the current turn remains unplayed. Most units still have movement remaining and I will leave a lot of those moves and decisions to the next player. I wanted to get kolhapur and keep the colonization expedition heading toward japan. I also rested a bunch of wounded units that were healing in barracks towns. I highly recommend that you go through the production queues and re-evaluate. I really didn't give much thought to what is being built the last turn or so.

    The japan expedition was planning to settle around 27,133 depending on the suitability of the terrain. I would have already been there, but I wasted a turn getting to boat built. That location is a 2 special site (one being the visible fish) which would position us well for further dealings (either trade or military) with japan. Both engineers were precharged 1 turn, FWIW. The vans are demanded in japanese cities so they should fetch very nice payoffs. We now have several ports with southern access (Bombay, Lahore, EscaDelloSqualo, Kolhapur, plus Delhi and Bombay boats can go through one of the canal cities.) so extending our presence down there should now be possible.

    We had 2 shipchains running to india (the original from palmyra and the newer one from palermo) but last turn I used both chains to send engineers and troops for the kolhapur and Japan expeditions, so this turn you can not deliver anything south from the mainland. You can probably settle on one chain from palermo and use some of the palmyra boats to deal with carthage if you want.

    There are 16 vans. A bunch are located in Canal di Viking. Several have just been built and are spread around the realm. The plan was to build hoover this turn, but that's up to you. Even if you build it, you may want to save some of the items which are demanded at least somewhere (dye, copper, silk) and use cash to finish the wonder. We only have one factory (picked up from india) but our sheild production is so bad due to support that having hoover might make it worth building some factories in our cities just to allow them to support anything else.

    We are still woefully short of engineers because most of our cities are either low on shields, low on food or both. Some of our new cities have the capacity to support a few, but as usual I did not make them a big enough priority. I raided a bunch of engineers from the homeland to support the attack on kolhapur, so we are extremely shorthanded up north. We just finished refrigeration which should help, but really need a lot more to do any significant farmland. It's a chicken and egg problem I gladly leave to my successor.

    The "decision" in turn 6 that I referred to in my earlier post was that I had finished off the germans and was considering immediately launching an attack against Carthage. But I couldn't decide whether to attack by going east via Ceasarea, or by going west from Palmyra/Hamburg and establishing a beachhead that way. My decision was to pursue neither. (I did RR to frankfurt to make the eastward route easier, if you want to go that way. I wanted to leave some fun for the next person so it's up to them to plan the next move. We now have a pretty formidable military, but it's spread all over the map. One thing to note, based on my attack at Kolhapur, as long as the other civs still have muskets, our artillery should be able to win fairly regularly even against walls, so carthage is proabably ready to be taken. Engineering support/transportation may be the biggest issue. We now have partisans so if you use them to capture cities, the emissary's ploy should keep the senate out of our hair most of the time.

    I had noticed that nobody yet had cities named after them. The first such honor went to Viking. The town itself isn't that impressive (it's built on a swamp), but it was in the center of the old German Empire which he was wise enough to attack. Snatching Leo before they hit conscription was truly a bold stroke of genius and the upgrades that came from that are what drove my whole set of turns. EscaDelloSqualo (spaces removed to fit the 15 char limit) is what I got from the Google translator when I asked it to translate "Shark Bait" from english to italian. Sharkbait got that honor because he set up the first settlement on the indian continent.

    There's still lots of fun to be had over the next several rounds. Enjoy!

    As usual, the teasers were purposefully misleading. Glad I got at least one bite.
    - The first comment was because I was late getting The rifle to the fort near Berlin and our engineer had to defend against a crusader. Luckily it was in a fort on a hill. Also I lost another engineer to The frigate in india because I did not think about an attack from that lake
    - There are no upgrades to be had because I got all of them. I think the only one left is to Aegis cruiser if we manage to get all the way to rocketry without learning Auto, which I would not recommend.
    - The war against germany had to end because they aren't there any more. Wiping the last cities out at once eliminated the need to fight partisans
    - the peace with japan is to buy time so we can establish a stronger presence in the south.
    - We "own" Adam Smith, thus the 'invisible hand' comment.

    Attached Files:

  11. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    An outstanding set of turns :goodjob:. I didn't think we would be able to eliminate the Germans this quickly, especially not if we at the same time managed to develop the large number of new techs Tim acquired. This is the reason I wondered whether we somehow managed to lose Berlin - that all of the 'Leo-upgrades' would be complete 8 turns after I finished seemed like a distant possibility to me.

    Also I see that nice progress has been made against the Indians. The only problem I see is that the Carthaginians could do a lot of damage should they decide to pay us a visit - our core cities are still almost undefended. Maybe the cruiser in Frankfurt should be sent towards the Carthaginians to intercept any visitors before they land on our shores.

    Building a city on the 'peninsula' SW of Berlin would be nice to shorten the shipchains. The problem is, we need lots and lots of new engineers to build railroads.

    My plans for warfare steadily expanded. At first the idea was to attack the Germans from the north just for fun (first target: Munich), then I realized that capturing the capital would be more fun and that it was indeed possible since we had lots of tranports ready. Once I had checked everything and realized that Berlin contained Leo and that the Germans were researching conscription this drove my whole strategy, including the very rapid buildup of an army (I probably would have built the army up at a rapid pace anyway but this particular detail made it imperative). Once I had captured Berlin I decided that backastabbing the Indians too would be fun although I can admit that doing so possibly required a certain amount of madness :D.

    Sharkbait plays next.
  12. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Oct 14, 2005
    New Zealand
    I've begun thinking... may be a day or two before I pull the trigger and actually make a move!

    A great set of turns Tim - the end is already in sight methinks, which is amazing given the complex situation that was there at the start of Tim's turns.

    The end is what is occupying my mind: whether to play in order to make conquest as quick as possible by working on setting things up for the next player (a few canal cities and ship chains reaching the southern civs), whether to focus more on individual conflicts myself (concentrate on eliminating the Cathaginians), whether to go all soft and peaceful and go for a spaceship (freights r us), or whether to even try and set us back further! Or whether just to build Manhattan and nuke eveything and leave the mess to be cleaned up by the next player!!!

    At any rate I foresee a few engineers being RB pretty darn soon.
  13. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Oct 14, 2005
    New Zealand
    I'm on turn 5 (1590) and hoping to get my set finished tomorrow and post so the next player can have the weekend to look at things.

    A few stats:

    Engineers - 39 (from 16)
    Artillery - 37 (from 25)
    New cities - 9 (some following Tim's naming convention)
    Tech progress - not too much

    I also got myself into a bit of a sticky situation - underestimated the manpower required for a certain task.

    Details to follow.

    Esca Dello Squalo
  14. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Oct 14, 2005
    New Zealand
    As previously mentioned, I had a few possible ways to proceed: war, peace or a bit of both. In the end I decided I wanted to try and achieve the following things:

    - Build lots of engineers and artillery, with a few partisans and alpine troops for city capture and stack defense
    - Attack Carthage and take as much as I can
    - Set up cities down south and try and get some freight delivered to both Japan and the Aztecs. I targeted 2 canal cities which will give us access to the Persians
    - Get a ship chain in place for these southern routes
    - Tech and wonders would take second place to these ambitions

    In much the same way as Tim, I struggled to decide whether to attack the Carthaginians from the east or west, and in the end decided to do both! This may have made it harder but I think it made things more fun too. I managed to make reasonable progress – in the last turn my east and west expeditionary forces met up at Leptis Parva and had a jolly old party atop the corpses of the defenders. They started with 21 cities and are down to 12, with Malaca now the capital and within reach of the next turn or so. We have 44 engineers and 40 artillery, along with 17 cavalry, 3 partisans, 6 alpine troops, 9 rifles (mainly in the homeland for defense) and 10 spies. Losses have been relatively light, although this may worsen since the Carths stole Guerilla Warfare at the end of the last turn and now partisans have started to appear.

    The Carthaginian cities have been pretty grumpy when captured and have needed Elvi in a number of cases – even so far as to needing to run a food deficit to keep them happy. There are still some of the cities in this situation.

    I didn’t hassle India much as I thought I’d leave Karachi in their hands for freight deliveries when the demanded goods appeared. Their other cities were not accessible with other things going on, and Karachi hasn’t been causing any trouble.

    We also have about 27 freights lying about. I managed to deliver a number of freight to Japan, and have just delivered 2 to Teotihuacan (size 24), both for over 1000g. The tech is done for the next turn (mobile warfare).

    The number of cities has risen from 33 to 49, although I haven’t spent much effort trying to improve them as all my efforts went into producing units. Most cities still have very few shields available for support, but we just discovered Miniaturization so it will be possible to throw some offshore platforms up where needed.

    Most of our troops are in Carthage, but there are some down south near the Aztecs. Our presence in Japan is pretty feeble but they are peaceful and Enthusiastic at present.

    There is still a fair few units that can move this turn, although I’ve had to use most of the engineers to help stop partisans appearing on the mountains above Leptis Parva.

    Here’s the log:

    1540(0) – TSL 60/0/40.

    Ship chains are moved back to their starting positions. RB a bunch of 9 engineers. Cannons moved to Caesarea, and a rough ship chain is put in place there. Spent down to 37g.

    Aztecs learn Refrigeration, and their government is overthrown.

    1550(1) – Gift Japanese Indu and Phys, and get their map. 4 engineers and 4 units moved to Caesarea. Seleucia founded to the south of Caesarea.

    8 freight shipped down to Lugdunum. Palermo silk to Karachi (D) +546g, Pompeii dye to Karachi (N) +414g.

    Railroad extended on Indian continent TimDelIncantere founded on the spot Tim has his eye on in Japan. Vecchio e Lento founded on eastern side of Carthaginian continent – can be reached via 2 ships (2 names following Tim’s convention :D).

    Spent down to 14g.

    Japs learn Metallurgy, Aztecs go Democratic, and Persians get Metal for Trade from Japs.

    1560(2) – Byzantium copper to Nara (D) 688g, Syracuse salt to Osaka (D) 900g. Tech done. 2425 in bank now.

    Hippo Regius founded north of Gades in Carthage. Gades taken +100g (3 muskets defended). City walls and barracks intact.

    Engineers and boats RB in India for southern ship chain and expansion. One boat mainly full of engineers starts to head south.

    Spend down to 384g mainly on engineers and freight.

    Persians learn Magnetism. 3 Carth dragoons lose to cavalry defending Gades. The Carths have quite a lot of dragoons floating around actually.

    1570(3) – Combustion –> Auto (over Amphib, Flight, Gen Eng). Indian horse approaching Bombay killed.

    32 engineers active, 18 cav, 30 arty, 8 spies, 21 freight.

    I decide that rather than attack Panormus just to the south of Gades, I want to take Carthage. So Necropolis built on the coast just above Carthage. It is defended by 5 muskets behind walls. I take it though, +150g, and their government flees to Malaca. We own the Oracle – woohoo! Happily the barracks and walls remain in Carthage. Emissary ploy.

    Here is where I thought I got into a bit of bother. The attackers around Carthage were exposed, so I had to position 2 or 3 units around the unfortified stack to minimise losses.

    Ravenna gold to Karachi (N) +424g. I bump into the Persians down south. I refuse to give them Conscription and the ceasefire expires. I meet them again, say no to giving Conscrip and giving 1400g (ha!), but get peace anyway. Not sure about this, but then I get their map and that makes it worth it I think. Also, other players can enjoy aggravating them into war.

    About 1750g spent (down to 12g) on units.

    Necropolis was only size 1 and it gets razed! I had no engineers spare to build into it – war on a shoestring. Never fear, the city of the dead will arise again next turn!

    1580(4) – Palmyra copper to Satsuma (D) +384g, and gold demand appears! Canal di Viking salt to Karachi (N) +188g.

    Necropolis rebuilt to size 2 this time.

    33 engineers, 36 arty now.

    Palermo salt to Karachi (N) +176g – I needed the gold as I had spent right down to zero and need more engineers.

    Carths learn writing, then steal Physics. 3 of their dragoons die and 1 wins. Indians learn Electricity.

    1590(5) – 41 engineers, 37 arty.

    Duca Moderatore founded as one of my desired canal cities down south, to allow access to the Aztecs and Persians. It is a red hat, so Elvis enters the building. I meet the Aztecs and swap maps, but then expel their diplomat – they remain Enthusiastic.

    Berlin copper to Kyoto (D) 472g, Canal di Viking dye to Kyoto (D) 320g. Tech done.

    I kill half a dozen units around Necropolis and Carthage – the area is now a bit safer. I surround my non-fortified stack near Necropolis. Vet cruiser kills carvel and caravan near Alalia in the east of Carthage.

    I start work on this eastern front. Alalia is defended by 4 muskets, and falls with no losses, +67g. Barracks, walls and colosseum standing! Ha! Despite the colosseum, there is only 1 light blue citizen, plus 2 red and 8 black hats! Much being a crappy show running! 4 Elvi hired, but leaves a 6 food shortage. Temple RB.

    1 engineer built into Vecchio e Lento. Spend about 1600g down to 32g.

    Persians learn Steam, partisan in fort defending Gades fights off a dragoon and goes vet. It then survives 2 elephant attacks but is almost dead. AT survives against a musket.

    1600(6) Riot in Brundisium – Elvis, but this leaves 1 food shortage and no production.

    Temple in Alalia means I only need 3 Elvi and 3 food short now (but there is plenty of food in the bin).

    Auto –> Miniaturization (want offshore platforms).

    Rusaddit falls having been defended by 3 muskets and 1 cannon behind walls. No losses, +57g. Walls and colosseum remain. About 6 units of theirs a re nearby, but emissary ploy works fine. 3 of these units are killed. Elvis needed here too (-5 food shortage), but the situation isn’t quite as bad as Alalia was. Workers moved so now -2 food only.

    Caesarea silk to Karachi (D) 726g. Down south the second canal city will be built on forest next turn and I should be able to get some freight to the Aztecs then too.

    Panormus falls +48g, granary sold, market and aqueduct remain. 1 Elvis hired. RB temple. Emissary ploy. Utica investigated – 2 muskets and walls.

    About 950g spent (down to 12g).

    Aztecs learn Commie, 1 dragoon dies at Rusaddit.

    1610(7) – 1 cav lost to fortified musket. Utica taken, +36g, granary sold, market and aqueduct remain. Emissary ploy. Ruscurru also falls, +68g, granary sold, market and aqueduct remain. Emissary ploy. Black hat – Elvis hired.

    Assunto Goon (Kev is with us in spirit) founded as second southern canal city. Annoyingly, an Aztec van is in the way so I can’t deliver any freight this turn – I have to build a longer road. Black hat, so RB temple and build and engineer into the city so there isn’t a food shortage. Maps swapped with Aztecs

    Rome gold to Satsuma (D) 810g.

    Rusicade taken, +35g, granary sold, market and aqueduct remain. Emissary ploy.

    Leipzig spice to Osaka (D) 768g. 2000g spent mainly on freight.

    Japs learn Steam, Persians learn Economics. Carths steal Guerilla Warfare (partisans!!!).
    Indian cav loses to fortified rifle near Karachi (gets vet status).

    1620(8) – Alalia now needs only 1 Elvis, -1 food supply. Bit of irrigation would be good, or maybe just a few more roads for trade arrows?

    Miniaturization -> Mobile Warfare (over Amphib and Fundy).

    Another pollution appears outside Berlin – I have ignored this so far.

    Munich dye to Teotihuacan (D) 1080g, Palmyra coal to same city (D) 1265g. Yes! Tech done.

    Leptis Parva defended by 3 muskets and walls on river. Lost 2 arty but it is emptied. 3 alpine troops and an arty are put on the mountains above the city, then it is taken +64g. Usual sale of granary, with market and aqueduct remaining. Emissary ploy. 5 partisan appears, and I use my engineers to reach them and kill them. The eastern and western forces join up and party like ‘twere 1699!!

    And that’s it. About 3500 gold waiting to be spent, and there are about a dozen freight down near the Aztecs (but tech is done already this turn).

    Here’s the save:

    Attached Files:

  15. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

    Jan 19, 2001
    Maryland, USA
    Great work. I like the pincer action against carthage. I knew I was overlooking something...now it seems so obvious! Again, I go back to my statement earlier that this is what makes these succession games so great. The urgency of only having a few turns leads to a series of aggressive choices whereas one player might be agressive for a while, then regroup.

    Very nice with the engineers too. 2.5x what I left you! Excellent work!!

    I really like your push down south, as well. Good job getting all those vans down there. The next player should have some significant funds to play with once some of those deliveries start hitting the aztecs and persians.

    And there's plenty to spend it on. With mobile war coming next turn, we'll probably want to rebuild a few barracks so when robotics hits we can cash in some of those Artilleries for vet Howies. Lots of other goodies like Offshores and Superhighways are also in order. With the distances we're covering, Superhighways will probably come close to paying for themselves in any decent sized homeland city with the increased delivery bonus from a single freight. With the increased base trade plus the 50% extra, I think they usually come close to doubling the payout.

    The rout is on at this point, but there's still plenty of shooting left to be done for everyone!
  16. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Feb 4, 2002
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Good Stuff. Just read through the notes; will look at the situation presently.

    (Finished seven tax returns (my wife & I, two daughters x state & federal, plus my mother's fed. Still have a state return (due May 1) & the local assn x 2)

    Thanks Duke for the call to action!
  17. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

    Oct 14, 2005
    New Zealand
    One thing that further attracted me to it was that the east of Carthage was plains, meaning there quite a lot of shield support to be had from our new and captured cities there - even if there are a few happiness problems.

    I agree totally - there is a desire to leave your mark on the game. In addition, I definitely spend more time analysing the position in one of these games to try and make the best of the limited turns - on a single played I'll struggle to overcome the urge to start playing immediately without having really much idea of what my goal is short term (not to mention medium and long term). Playing these games have made me improve my planning considerably. Not to mention the enjoyment of taking on an established situation and working from there - this opens your eyes to a number of possibilities, while it is easy in a single played game to have decided upon an approach early, and you stick with that without considering all the possible other ways to play from a given situation.

    I really wanted to set it up so that we could access all AI civs and maximise deliveries. Given the relatively few Indian cities, it didn't seem that desirable to set up a longer ship chain to get to them. When I spotted the 2 canal city spots I couldn't resist, as otherwise we'd have to start war with the Japanese before we could get to the Persians, and my military aims were the Carths. There was another canal city which would have just got us access to just the Aztecs, but it was tundra IIRC, and the 2 spots selected mean we can expand with more cities down there, and maybe start a few long distance domestic deliveries once those cities grow and also get superhighways and airports.

    I would have liked to get a proper ship chain in place down south, but ran out of time while trying to get the freight down there.

    Agreed - white goods will start the cash really flowing and the shields churning out. Then we have the choice of mass expansion or a quicker finish.

  18. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I was away from my computer for 10 days so no comments until now. Great set of turns, our empire is almost unrecogizable and at last we have lots of engineers and remarkable progress has been made against the Carthaginians. Still a lot of fun ahead with our military though. :ar15: :nuke:

    I assume Old n Slow is playing despite the fact that there are now almost two weeks since he posted here.
  19. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

    Feb 4, 2002
    Vienna, VA, USA
    Sorry about the long delay -- no excuse is appropriate. I decided to take a rather quiet set of turns, but after a bit I couldn't help myself -- I did smack a few Cart towns. We're still low on the Engineers, and I didn't start any new towns (but there are a number of good places to grow...)

    I also only played five turns and recommend that the remaining players hold themselves to either five turns or one country. I think that a few of the fellow nations could be bumped off in less than five turns.

    1620 (0) Wrapping up the final aspects of the great lead in...Reset a number of cities for growth

    1630 (1) We discover MW, and opt for MP >AW, Fl, GE. We get 16 cities with we love and three choose to no linger do so. Pop = 24M. Also see about healing up a bunch of arty units. Four major deliveries yield 704, 668, 936 & 480, enough for a new advance next turn. Build some white stuff. Actually build a bunch of white stuff over teh next few turns. In the interim, an Indian destroy almost dies sinking an empty transport of ours.

    1640 (2) We discover MP, and opt for Comp>AW, Fl, Fundy, GE, Labor, NF. Deliver freight (notable is Syracuse dye (d) to Celix = 1360); Pop = 26M

    1650 (3) We discover Comp, and opt for Labor>AW, Fl, Fundy, NF, Recyc. Deliver freight (notable is Berlin oil (d) & Ravena silk (d) to Delhi = 1295 & 1408); Also break down and take Malaca & Caralis; clear out the subsequent Parts. Pop = 28M

    1660 (4) We discover Labor, and opt for Rob>AW, Fl, NF, Recyc. Some more freight, and demanded oil is especially appreciated. Needless to say some white stuff has been placed accordingly. Pop = 31M

    1670 (5) We discover Rob, and opt for NF>AW, Fl, Fundy, GE. (Aztecs have Fundy) Complete Hoover's via a couple of trucks & cash. Tale Selinus (and they just became the capital last turn, oh my) & clean up afterwards. Demanded gems to Tlate = 1496, new record.

    I think I moved most of the walkers but left the boats in case the next player wants to shift something. I also left a reasonable war chest rather than buying white goods, so the next player has options. Haven't conducted any diplomacy, but with our poor reputation,...heh, heh, heh.
  20. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Mar 31, 2001
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    A solid set of turns, we have *lots* of cash now.

    5 turns per player is a good idea. I notice that we can now build howitzers so building some barracks and then disbanding some artillery units and getting howitzers instead would be fun. We also need some new cities and railroads for strategic purposes (shortening shipchains for example).

    Duke plays next, followed by me. And I already know what I'd like to do :D.

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