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Danish far-right party calling for Muslim deportation to stand in election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Angst, May 6, 2019.

  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    I get that you use the word differently, and that's a cultural thing indicative of a certain, perhaps even dominant and mainstream, continental European mindset, but until you forward to me as useful an equivalent term in common parlance as "racism", I hope you'll forgive my Americanness in not really giving a crap about mincing words when it comes to an actively engaged, intentional and measured, genocidal culture along racial lines. I also understand that, generally speaking, the attitude may also say of different cultures not presently undergoing forcible attempts at erasure: "I don't think they have a cultural commitment to crime or are literally ********, I just don't like the fact that they look black" and I still can't bring myself to care. :dunno:

    There's plenty of whataboutism to go around, my culture is far more than a hop skip and jump from perfect, but still, good lord. What term am I going to have to fall back on? Evil? If I use genocidal, the people who don't like Mooselems and Jehoofah's Witnernmesses and Juice will cheer.

    If I had to guess, this seems a European perspective. This might be an eventuality, but nationalism is on the rise and has more than enough power to melt civilization yet. My personal pet theory is that the loose confederation of Europe is starting the crisis that has been unavoidable to confederations. Do national identities fade into something similar to those of US states as a federal identity rises to take its place, or does the governing unit dissolve as confederation-ish things are wont to do under pressure? Brexit seems a symptom with a lot of details/inputs, and a pretty predictable one at that. But again, I'm not really sure about what they hell do I know, watching from all the way over here.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  2. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    Ah, who’s not reading now? I was actually quite generous and gave 1961. It’s still the same reliance and exploitation. The economic miracle would’ve collapsed without cheap labor into the 60s. That labor could no longer come from the east... so it came from Turkey.

    Hm... this strikes me as a what about fallacy. In what way does recognizing the exploitation of one group diminish the exploitation of another?

    To “stay in my lane”— how does recognizing the racial oppression of southern black slaves diminish the exploitation of Irish and Italians in the northern factories?

    Not sure what your gripe is. I wasn’t specific enough? I mean, sorry. This interestingly seems to be your argument in general across the thread— even more interestingly it makes YOU look like a “tumblr SJW”.

    >Here’s a picture of some Turkish workers in the German factories in 1963!

    >Wow, breathtaking exploitation. Perhaps contributes to racism against Turks and Muslims in general in modern Germany?

    >No. You don’t get it. These people...

    And so on for several paragraphs.

    But of course that’s really not your claim because you have no substantial claim, other than some immaterial assertion that we are being “too English”. Lex asks: how? You say: “by just how you’re being. It’s too English.”

    Well, excuse us if we don’t take your analysis too seriously then.

    Certainly. Though I may cautiously assert that colonialism is a prerequisite to the development of racist systems, in some capacity. It dehumanizes uniquely, in a way that may be of absolute necessity to racialization.

    Perhaps this is just because there wasn’t much German colonialism until the 19th century, and thus the German concept of race in this structural, western sense necessarily developed in a period in which much colonial discourse across all Western European nations was dominated by such ideas. There is no shortage of scientific racism or nationalistic structures in British or French colonial sources from those times.

    Possibly just because racism is so basically fundamental to the entire society of the Americas that any serious social analysis MUST include an analysis of race.

    Hm... no, I don’t think “America” really “tries” to do much. Do I think some socially influential American commentators have inadvertently set goalposts around discourse internationally that rely on uniquely American perspectives? Yeah, definitely. But I think that’s a very different process to the concerted effort by American political and corporate elites to drown out indigenous culture, material and non-material, in the third world— like in my genetic homeland, the Philippines. I think it’s a very, very different process with very different results. One ends up alienating some academics, and one ends up gentrifying localities until the entire population has either become effective slaves of American firms or corpses. One is cultural imperialism. The other... should perhaps find another word for itself, because bunching them together is tenuous and could lead to some unpleasant equivocation.

    And together they’ve created the white Americans... the worst people of history? :lol:
     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  3. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    Not only have you not made my points any weaker, you have arguably made them stronger, which leads me to rest on them for the time being:
    Additionally you have demonstrated a number of claims i would have made about you were i a less polite person.
    E.g. we understand quite well that you'd (eventually) have picked '61, and why you'd do so and how that is not generous but rather revealing the nature of your claim.
    As usual i have to thank you for doing my work for me.
     
  4. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    you. I like you :) nice to see we agree with each other on most points and don't have to shout at each other or be mean.
     
    inthesomeday likes this.
  5. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    My brother believes Saudis are worse - especially as they'd gotten Americans (and some other First World Nations) giving them high-tech military equipment (like F-15's Typhoon Eurofighters, renamed Canadian LAV-25's, etc.) and have treaties to come rushing to their defense at the drop of a hat if the threat of invasion rears it's ugly head, and pay them so much money for their vast oil resources they live the good life in shining, high-tech, comfortable "oasis-cities" in the desert, but are given NO real pressure to advance socially and politically from, effectively, the absolute, non-constitutional monarchy with hard Sharia law backing of clan-oriented Bedouin tribes they were upon the foundation of their kingdom in 1932 - and they feel entitled to this attitude and have become arrogant and indolent. My brother worked for an international oil field tools repair company and was sent all around the world to oil-rich nations, even (because he was Canadian, despite working for an American company) ones American citizens would have been barred from by Department of Commerce restriction, like Cuba, Libya, and Iran, and he had learned to tell the difference, by the way they talked, dressed, and acted, between different Arab nationalities, unlike many Westerners. Mind, when he says Saudis are, on average, the worst nationality of people he's met, he of course only means the men - he, like all outside men, was not permitted to speak to, or even in close proximity to, the women.
     
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  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    I buy that. thanks for sharing the story with us :)
     
  7. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    They send lots of the young ones to university in northern Illinois from what I can tell.
     
  8. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Oh you can edit this

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    Yes it is isn't it.
     
  9. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    wow, great contribution! keep it up with the ad homs
     
  10. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Oh you can edit this

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    "ad hom" must have been redefined since I last checked.
     
  11. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    Ad horn? Isn't that where you roll up a bunch of supermarket flyers into a cone and make funny noises at people?
     
  12. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Oh you can edit this

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  13. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    My european perspective is that national identities are coming back with a vengeance. There cannot be any form of working democracy outside the nation. And working democracy is necessary to solve a whole lot of problems that are plaguing the world, power sharing (including "inequality") foremost. The balance of social feelings will overshoot and do a lot of damage because of all the fools who have been trying to prevent the functioning of democracy. It's a dam filling until the water goes over the top....
     
  14. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    communes, Spanish civil war, grassroots movements, the greek Polis, and millions of other institutions (sports clubs, voluntary work..) that work on a semi-democratic basis would like to disagree.
     
  15. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    Also, keep in mind, EVERY single nation-state in existence today was artificially created by someone, at some point, securing a piece of land (or sometimes several non-contiguous pieces) to mark invisible borders around and get a system of laws and order and governance established, and have it recognized by enough relevant nation-states already established to make it viable. These are not natural, organic, intrinsic institutions like nationalists often portray them as, and, technically - and theoretically - they're always up for renegotiation - internally and externally - with enough military, political, economic, and/or cultural clout. As an astronaut from the ESA said after first setting foot on the International Space Station and looking down from an observation window, "you cannot see international borders from space."
     
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  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I'm curious what role you imagine the European far-right playing in this process of reinvigorating democracy.
     
  17. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Actually, nation-states in existence today largely follow cultural lines. Those which don't tend to have serious instability and to break up with time.
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Ah yes, a long-familiar argument. Chinese Emperors also follow the Mandate of Heaven; those who don't tend to be overthrown or die untimely deaths.
     
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  19. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I provided a fact, you provide an idiotic wannabe parallel that is lacking the core concept that would make it work as a parallel. I know which one hold the most weight.
     
  20. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    They don't do so well ENOUGH that border disputes, separatist movements (whether militant or as political parties, depending), proclamations with a lot of baggage - and even good points and evidence - and lack of national legitimacy, Aboriginal peoples' and their claims and issues, including the malappropriation their old land and resource claims within, and other issues that crop up ALL THE DAMNED TIME that show these nation-states are not nearly so intuitive and often much more contrived than you seem to admit, even if they're not falling apart at the seams, like Austria-Hungary, or the Russian or Ottoman Empires at the end of WW1, the great Colonial Empires during Decolonalization, or the USSR and Yugoslavia in the early '90'. And that's all BEFORE newer issues like immigration and political asylum migrants and globalization and the changes they wreak are taken into account.
     

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