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Danish far-right party calling for Muslim deportation to stand in election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Angst, May 6, 2019.

  1. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    That's a game played by both sides though. Liberals love aiding the fundamentalist cause of representing Islam as a monolith whenever it serves their narratives.
    That's how Maryam Hübsch gets to speak on television as a supposed representative for all Muslims (or all European Muslims or all Djerman Muslims).

    On the same note there's also significant struggle going on both in majority Muslim countries and in the "West", with Muslim women making very serious efforts to redefine Islam.
    Both "western" conservatives and liberals claim to seek to aid them in that effort. How genuine these claims are can be scrutineered on either side.
    The noteworthy datum is that they both make very similar errors of perception, representation and judgement.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  2. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    yes, I think we agree on all points there. it is definitely abused by both sides.

    funny you mention "muslim women making very serious efforts to redefine islam", I've met some of them. at a talk, someone asked her (kind of a public person, an author) if she ever ate pork out of necessity. she just laughed and said that for her it's absolutely okay when there is no other choice. and German cantines often have only Schnitzel (well, not anymore, we got soy Schnitzles now), so she got Porked up. the rest of the talk was a lot more serious, but this stuck with me for whatever reason. I also find there's a hugely surprising amount of female muslim activists, and also female kurdish activists, in Germany.
     
  3. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    It's not arbitrary. Your response to OP complaining that a party which supports the total exclusion of Muslims from Danish society may pick up seats in the national legislature, and calling the attitude of this party "racist," is to say that "Islam isn't a race" in an apparent attempt to argue the pedantic point that this Danish party's program should not be called racist.

    At best that suggests a terribly lopsided set of priorities on your part, at worst it suggests you support the Danish party's ideas and don't want them tainted by association with racism.

    Fortunately no one needs to explain to them that many people are racist toward them and regard them as alien invaders despite having a perfectly good claim to being "European."
     
  4. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    I really like how Lexicus pick the word "racialized" here, because it is what happened and this is what actually matter, because the reality is like how @Narz and @metatron said that Muslim are consisting of people from diverse race (haplogroup, skin color?), from Caucasus till Eastern Europe, while the Anatolian Turkic are more Greek than that of Central Asian if we talk about race.

    But also @Cloud_Strife is right in the sense that society treated Muslim more like a race "brown people with beard, Turban, Hijab, etc" If this is not the reality why the Sikh group are often victims of Islamophobia? Why the term middle east are strongly associated with Islam? While there are great chunk of middle eastern who are not Muslim.

    In this reality even though Muslim is not a race- and the term race itself is pretty much obsolete, the Islamophobia rhetoric treated Muslim as out-lander, refugees, immigrants that endangered the purity of the local. If not why the Denmark right wing politician even consider to apply such law? Given that there must be local born Denmark, In-landers, who are Muslim? Either born Muslim or convert to Islam. Hence to undermine the fact that Muslim has been racialized is what exactly the Islamophobs after.
     
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I also really like the word "racialize" too because it's a very succinct way of expressing the relationship between the fiction of race and the reality of racism.

    One of my favorite things on this forum is watching people insist that race is biologically real while, sometimes in the very same post, falsely claiming they are not racists!
     
    Cloud_Strife and haroon like this.
  6. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    I really don't know what exactly happened to us until you coined that word, nice one really
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    What??? no no no, I did not coin that word. I actually do not know its origin, but I did not make it up.
    I think it must be a neologism, coined by an academic at some point.
     
    haroon likes this.
  8. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    To me, making a big deal out of how Muslims tend to be “people of color” is like saying Muslims tend to smoke or eat spicy food or something.

    People can be very prejudiced against people of a different ethnic group who share a similar skin tone, so I don’t really see why this is so significant.
     
    Narz likes this.
  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    It's not, it's just pure pedantry to detract from the real issue of discrimination and prejudice.
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    so race doesn't exist until you want to call people racists?
     
  11. Peuri

    Peuri Game

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    That's nonsensical. It's like saying one can't be an Empedoclean elementalist, because Empedoclean elements don't exist.
     
  12. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Racists arent some hivemind. It's a spectrum. My mom for instance is probably slightly racist, mistrusting mainstream black culture (which to be fair many blacks also do) but she likes "hard working Africans". She'd also probably prefer I bring home a "nice" black girl than a white one who's all tatted up.

    I know there are actual racists who will be against anyone not Aryan but they're a very small segment and probably shrinking, they just create a lot of noise to appear bigger than they are.

    Instead of whining about how horrific the opposition are I hope the Danish left has learned from the US's mistakes and created a solid platform of their own.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  13. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Wow. That's like saying that pointing out a spelling error in a newsletter from my preferred presidential candidate means I support the opposing candidate.

    If you really believe that you're an idiot or extremely disingenuous. I suspect a little of both.
     
  14. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    Blahblah, no ones stopping you from talking about the real issue, you just can't help but make an idiot of yourself and calling me a probable racist who supports this Danish fringe group because I pointed out a problem of definition.

    Moderator Action: Narz, that's twice that you've called Lex an idiot in the same thread. It's flaming and I would like you to stop doing it, please. --LM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2019
  15. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    its like saying race does not exist but people are racists
     
  16. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    It happened in Rwanda between Hutu and Tutsi, German and Belgian divided the Bantu tribe, categorized them then BAM racism happened follow with genocide.
     
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  17. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    herders get killed by farmers...its a story right out of the Bible
     
  18. haroon

    haroon Chieftain

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    Alright, @Farm Boy is my private theologian maybe he can helps me with this
     
    Lexicus likes this.
  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    Cain the farmer kills Abel the herder
     
  20. Peuri

    Peuri Game

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    Interestingly enough the divide was introduced by Johan Hanning Speke, who based it on the Biblical hamite theory. Speke thought the Tutsis were the "higher race", because they were not, according to Speke, descended from Ham, Noah's son, whom Noah dooms to be slave to his other children, because Ham had the audacity to see drunked Noah passed out in his tent.

    But still. I don't understand how you don't see that people can be racists, even if race has no useful basis in biology. People act out of false beliefs all the time. You can believe in the existance of unicorns, and apparently even receive "unicorn therapy", what ever that might be, all the while unicorns being non-existant.
     
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