Dao Strategy

[Kalina]

Maybe this should in new civilizations development as Dao are still new and things for them will probably change but decided to post it here as it's more about strategy than changing them in any way. I have a couple of questions and thoughts about them - inspired by 10 tips for civilizations threads

1. Use Yinxi. He is so much better then other Dao leaders. Both his traits (philosophical and spiritual) have incredible synergy with Dao, allowing strong early and late game. With Spiritual you have double production of Temple of the Elements and Potency+Mobility for your disciple units. Temple of the Elements is very, very important early game unit and most of your Unique Units are Disciples.
With Philosophical you have double production of Calligraphy House (second Unique Building, not very important but nice) and Elder Council (always useful, especially with philosophical).
2. Go for Mysticism. I cannot stress it enough - sure, grab a resource tech or two (at most, I'd go for mysticism as a second tech usually. Given choice I'd go for Agriculture - food resources give nice production bonus under Survival and it is required for Calendar you need to switch to Agrarianism) so you have something to do with your worker but Mysticism should be researched as soon as possible. It unlocks two buildings you build faster. Temple of the Elements allows spawning elementals (more about them in a moment) and Elder Council allows assigning Sage specialist. What's more it allows God King for production and culture bonus in your single city and Ancient Ways for more culture and extra happiness from Temple of the Elements. I'm not even mentioning you can switch civis for free...
3. Once you have couple of warriors and Temple of the Elements and Elder Council (or maybe even earlier if you want Prophet, not sure yet), it time to think about early Great People. You have two options - Great Sage and Great Prophet. Academy from Great Sage gives you nice research boost, but Prophet can be achieved earlier (thanks to Religion civic, at Ancient Chants), gives 2 (3 with God King) and 5 to support your hopefully numerous elementals and warriors if you want early rush.
After first Great Sage, I'd stick with Prophets only - build Altar with them when you can, so all your spellcasters start with free xp.
4. Once you have a little free production (probably after warriors+settler for your second city) bulid one or maybe both altars. I'd go for Air first - 5 is enough early, 2 and flying is absolutely great and Elder Air Elemental is probably strongest one. If you happen to spawn Air Elemental early, you may consider scouting your nearest enemy and stealing a worker or two from them. Early rush is useful as you don't have much great things in mid game, so weakening your enemies might help you a bit.
For second elemental type I'd go with Fire usually - same strength as Water, immunity and better ability (when conquering cities especially) as you don't fight at seas so early.
As a minor bonus (though often useful), Altars give +1 / and you happen to start with Air Mana.
5. Mid game, I'd go with Farms+Specialists as most other civs. You don't have anything special here, so try to build upon your strong early game. Build Temples of the Elements in cities as first building and selected altars as soon as you can. Your elementals and not strong enough by this point usually and as far as I know, you cannot upgrade them. Your goal here is to reach Commune with Nature as soon as possible, with having decent economy. At Commune with Nature you spawn Elder Elementals, get your hero and Shugenjas.
6. Mana. You have no reason to build many types of mana nodes as your spellcasters can't use most spells. I find stacking one mana type most useful, as your elementals of this kind get better. Probably I'd go with Air Mana, as Elder Air Elementals are best of four kinds, with Sentry, Flying (yes, can't use roads but when attacking it doesn't matter without Commando) and chance to spawn elementals. What's more it also makes Sanari better and your Conjurers start with very useful Maelstrom.

And now some things I'm not sure about

1. When to go for Knowledge of the Ether ? Hermits are not that useful, probably worse than adepts. With elementals healing themselves you don't need Heal that much. I'd certainly grab Hermits midgame, when I'm forced to use traditional troops for a while but KotE isn't priority for me. With Altar, you don't really need them sitting in cities, accumulating XP.
2. I'm not sure about Sorcery either - Conjurers are good with Maelstrom, Fireball and Stoneskin, but are they worth delaying Commune with Nature ?
Please note - I assume their ability to learn Tier III spells is a bug.
3. Are Warrior Monks any good ? As now, I don't think so, but maybe I'm missing something ?

 

[Jarrema]

great writeup !
Very interesting tips
I'm currently playing Dao civ in PBEM game. I have specific strategy in my mind, so I do not want to describe it here in details
But I can second You, that Yinxi is way better than other possible leaders. Awesome traits for this civilization
You have not mentioned two reasons why this traits are so awesome. In my opinion, Dao should concentrate more or less on getting a lot of grat people (philosophical helps here), and they should switch civics often (here is the role of spiritual). But, of course, the main advantage is getting superb disciple units.
If I remember correctly, warrior monks are disciple units. So, with spiritual and, for example, two levels of Altar, they will have mobility, be one xp from getting a level, and have a potency promotion (so, even without fighting, they will make second level fast). When You couple it with vassalage, conquest or theocracy, You can produce level 2 units. When You are running vassalage, theocracy and conquest, You will produce level 3 units wit 3 movement points. They will be as strong as heavy infantry without metals, and much faster (with added bonus against demons, and with healing ability which is not so important). Then, surviving warrior monks could be upgraded to druids or soheis. Thanks to them, You could forget about metal line (concentrating on techs more important for Dao) and still have not-so-bad units. In short, I believe warrior monks could be not so bad for Yinxi.
Go for KotE when You are ready to go deep - up to sorcery. Hermits are weak, but conjurers (mage replacements) are powerful with their elemental ancestries.

 

[Apeiron]

For the Dao I think we should use the couple Theocracy and Social Order, to get -100% unkeep from the number of towns, reduce the unkeep from the distance, give experience to disciples and happiness with the court. Reduce the unkeep from the distance can be easy with three palaces.

 

[Kalina]

If I remember correctly, warrior monks are disciple units. So, with spiritual and, for example, two levels of Altar, they will have mobility, be one xp from getting a level, and have a potency promotion (so, even without fighting, they will make second level fast). When You couple it with vassalage, conquest or theocracy, You can produce level 2 units. When You are running vassalage, theocracy and conquest, You will produce level 3 units wit 3 movement points. They will be as strong as heavy infantry without metals, and much faster (with added bonus against demons, and with healing ability which is not so important). Then, surviving warrior monks could be upgraded to druids or soheis. Thanks to them, You could forget about metal line (concentrating on techs more important for Dao) and still have not-so-bad units. In short, I believe warrior monks could be not so bad for Yinxi.

Good points here - though I'd still go with Bronze Working => Warfare. For about 800 you get two wonders and nice 3 xp Training Yards. Epic is useful for spamming those 10+ XP disciples in your capital.
Their problem is that they have just one strength more then bronze swordsman but cost twice as much. Monasticism 3120 is a lot and probably better spend elsewhere.

Go for KotE when You are ready to go deep - up to sorcery. Hermits are weak, but conjurers (mage replacements) are powerful with their elemental ancestries.

I agree - with ability to build 10 or very close to 10 xp units, ignoring hermits should be viable. I was wondering if you need them to survive to Commune with Nature or if you can wait with KotE=>Elementalism=>Sorcery (another good thing for Dao, no need for more then one magic technology) until you get those Elder Elementals.
I think most skill-intensive thing for Dao is balancing between going for mid-late game technologies and building stable economy - same thing as with Amurites, you want those technologies early but also want gold for elementals upkeep and hermit upgrades. And unlike Amurites you cannot go RoK for extra gold.

For the Dao I think we should use the couple Theocracy and Social Order, to get -100% unkeep from the number of towns, reduce the unkeep from the distance, give experience to disciples and happiness with the court. Reduce the unkeep from the distance can be easy with three palaces.

Probably best way to go with those civics. Only time I'd use other are when you somehow get Form of the Titan. 3 xp from Training Yard, 3 from Theocracy, 2 from Vassalage and 2 from Form of the Titan means instant 10 xp spellcasters in all cities. But being Spiritual, you can change from Social Order to Vassalage for free, so you don't have to stay at it.

 

[Jarrema]

For the Dao I think we should use the couple Theocracy and Social Order, to get -100% unkeep from the number of towns, reduce the unkeep from the distance, give experience to disciples and happiness with the court. Reduce the unkeep from the distance can be easy with three palaces.

You could do it in single player game easily. But in the multiplayer, You better do not count on getting third palace (don't remember name of this wonder, but third palace is world wonder, so someone could beat You to that

 

[Apeiron]

No, the two other palaces are national wonders.

 

[Jarrema]

No, the two other palaces are national wonders.

It's correct, my mistake

 

[Jarrema]

If I remember correctly, warrior monks are disciple units. So, with spiritual and, for example, two levels of Altar, they will have mobility, be one xp from getting a level, and have a potency promotion (so, even without fighting, they will make second level fast). When You couple it with vassalage, conquest or theocracy, You can produce level 2 units. When You are running vassalage, theocracy and conquest, You will produce level 3 units wit 3 movement points. They will be as strong as heavy infantry without metals, and much faster (with added bonus against demons, and with healing ability which is not so important). Then, surviving warrior monks could be upgraded to druids or soheis. Thanks to them, You could forget about metal line (concentrating on techs more important for Dao) and still have not-so-bad units. In short, I believe warrior monks could be not so bad for Yinxi.
Go for KotE when You are ready to go deep - up to sorcery. Hermits are weak, but conjurers (mage replacements) are powerful with their elemental ancestries.

Ihave been mistaken. Warrior monks ARE disciple units, but they do not get experience points from Altar of Luonnatar. I believe that it is a bug, but anyway, warrior monks ... hmm... kinda sucks (at least now)

EDIT: It was my another mistake... Warrior monks DO get experience points from Altar of Luonnatar, but only when they are build in the city with the Altar.