Darious I (Archipelago Immortal series)

[obsolete]

There are a few things I have always tried to avoid. One is Archipelago maps. I just never liked coastal starts much, and the rest of things that go with it. So recently I decided it may do some good to force myself into playing that sort of thing to make myself more of a well rounded player.

I’ve also avoided financial leaders as I prefer much stronger traits, so I will again force myself to play some financial, which at least shouldn’t be TOO bad for archipelago. Of course, I also don’t like to build cottages but that’s where I draw the line. We are simply not going to go there. And while everyone may think it’s stupid not to with financial, IT IS MY DECISION!

That said, I noticed there are 10 financial leaders, and now I don’t know which to pick. After thinking about it for a while, I decided the hell with it. I’ll make myself a little series 10 episodes long so that way every leader will have had its chance.

And hopefully, by then I will have discovered enough of all the quirks for this type of map, that I can switch gears and move this thing back up to deity.


The leaders in alphabetical order are:

Dareios I.
Elisabeth
Hannibal
Huayna Capac
Mansa Musa
Pacal II.
Ragnar
Victoria
Wang Kon
Wilhelm von Oranien


So, I will try and go through them in order…


But before I start… I need to know what are the original standard settings for the map? My options have changed a bit from past team-games so I’m not sure anymore. What is both sea-level and climate supposed to be set to?

I see right now they are set to Temperate & Low. I’m not sure that is right.

 

[shyuhe]

medium seas (I think) and temperate climate. GLH for the win on archipelago.

 

[Outshined]

Hello there. I'm a relatively new player dropping by to say I tested out your settled great person/specialist economy (from the Impossible series) and I liked playing it a lot. I was a bit skeptical at first, but it was a nice change from the usual cottage spam economy to have so much surplus production. I noticed I had a great deal more early momentum in this game than my usual ones; it amazed me when I got a forge built in 3 turns immediately after I Oracled Metal Working.

I had pretty terrible luck getting great artists though. I might have got 4 or 5 during the course of the game, just from building the National Epic in the capital (despite running 4+ priests the majority of the game, and only building prophet/engi wonders!).

My tech did lag a bit towards the end (usually whenever I had to switch out of Representation to war/rush buy) so I did end up cottaging some cities I captured later, but practice makes perfect and I bet I'll be able to keep that early momentum going with a little more work.

Getting back on the topic of this series: Financial is actually a pretty good trait, if you can stomach the traditional cottage spam economy.

I find one of the best uses for the trait is to cottage riverside tiles early, so the tile immediately jumps up from the usual 2c to 3c. I might aim for earlier civil service so you can reserve more river for cottages and chain farms elsewhere. It's also a strong trait for coastal starts, like this series, because all of your coast tiles start at 3c. If I recall correctly, you can also gain the +1c bonus even for ocean tiles by building the Colossus, for a total of (4c coast/3c ocean). You may just ignore cottages altogether and decide to work Colossus!coasts =P.

Anyway, good luck with the series.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

Since it's your first go at Archipelago I would pick either Willem, Ragner, or Hannibal for your first game. Three of the best civs for water maps.

HC is also amazing. He is so good I refuse to play him.

And why not go BIG!! [puts in a plug for HUGE maps]

 

[PaulusIII]

Sounds like an interesting game. I don't need to tell you that the water-based wonders (the Great Lighthouse in particular) are musts for an archipelago map.

Anyways... good luck.

 

[obsolete]

Hmm. Well I thought Ragnar on archipelago was the one that was too amazing that people ended up avoiding him?

Even if Darius I isn't so hot, so be it. I'll still just do it in alaphabetical order.

As for the lighthouse and colossus, interesting. Because these are primarily the wonders that I just about always avoid, haha! But we'll see. I can understand the lighthouse in the right situation as I did that before, but the colossus? It expires soooo quick.

Anyhow, it's not exactly my first archi-map, I did partake a bit in that deity of random thread, but of course snaaty's team already had done some good groundwork. And in a way I think it was cheated a bit since after the start there were votes on the best early save to use.

I had pretty terrible luck getting great artists though. I might have got 4 or 5 during the course of the game, just from building the National Epic in the capital (despite running 4+ priests the majority of the game, and only building prophet/engi wonders!).

I am convinced at least in 3.17 that the gene-pool doesn't get factored into the probability correctly of what to pop. It should correlate, but time and time again the results prove this is not the case. If there are 3 different types of GPs to pop, the odds of me getting an artist are at least 1 in 3, and NOT 1 or 2 percent even if the probability tells me it should be 1 or 2 percent.

Chalk it up as another of the many bugs...

Another reason to avoid the NE...



And soon... we start...



BTW, I noticed there are 3 options for land-mass type. One of them archipelago. Shouldn`t that one be the default for.... ahem... archipelago.

 

[PaulusIII]

Hmm. Well I thought Ragnar on archipelago was the one that was too amazing that people ended up avoiding him?

Depends on your tastes, really. He's excellent for an archipelago warring game but his economy's not all that remarkable. Hannibal is much better for an archipelago economy because he has the best trade route economy of all the leaders.

 

[futurehermit]

Looking forward to this...

 

[obsolete]

Alright, here’s the start.

I’ve been looking at this for a few minutes now and I’m still not sure. What ever I do here.. I am going to be stuck with that decision for the full 500 turns. So I want to do this right.. But it’s just too hard to tell here.

I really want to move into pos 9. It will make up for that 1 turn delay, but can cause problems. I will be stuck with only sea-food, which can lead to some problems, especially since I don’t even start with fishing. Grrr.

There is a possibility for a land-based food source south of me, and another spot where if I get lucky maybe horses pops. And I’ll really be sad if I moved THEN only to find this out. So I just don’t know… I feel like I’m gambling if I stay here.. And I’m gambling if I don’t.

Also, there is a good chance that a metal or other may pop on that plains-hill, so moving onto it isn’t so hot.

I will move my scout to the 9 pos, and if I find another sea-food there, I’ll move the settler, but if not????

Going to be a tuff decision/gamble here….

If I move, I know for 100% my aggriculture tech is an absolute waste here. And my silly hunting isn’t exactly the greatest of things either.

I can already see why he's not so hot for archi... even his UU probably isn't going to get used

 

[obsolete]

Alright, on second hand, maybe I should move my scout to the W/S first and if there is nothing in plain sight there, then just move the settler to the #9?

 

[Outshined]

I can understand the lighthouse in the right situation as I did that before, but the colossus? It expires soooo quick.

Is it that bad? It expires about the same time as the Parthenon and the Great Library, two other wonders that many consider highly valuable regardless of the expiration date. Then again, you will probably want to get Astro as early as possible on a water map like Archipelago. I guess it's a wash.

The start looks pretty average... at least we have a lot of hills to work with the seafood. That plains hill NE of your settler is conspicuously without forests, so my bet is that iron or copper is there.

I might move the scout south to see if there are any good commerce/strategic resources we can work with the seafood, otherwise it seems a bit light to start only with food resources.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Darius is ORG which means half-price lighthouses, good thing on a water map.

 

[DMOC]

I don't think moving will do you any good. Why not settle in place? Settle, start fishing, build a warrior and then switch to a workboat when fishing comes in.

 

[obsolete]

Well damnit, I still can't make up my mind.

Moving would get me a bonus boost. I'd get earlier stuff out faster. But I just don't know.. It's possible that nothing at all will pop up on that hill.. grrrr!!!!

I was thinking, tech fishing first, while getting worker out through the bonus hill. Then right away road the hills to get them ready for the lighthouse.

At least the normal lighthouses are cheap, but there are still 3 strikes against me for the Great Lighthouse. I am not industrious... and I I don't start with fishing... and I don't start with mining. And hell, if I try to whip I lose another turn with anarchy, etc.

Grrrr, I want my trusty old Ramesses back, cause this sucks. I suppose I can try to gamble for it. I'll have to try to get it within what... 50 turns? But I don't think it's going to happen. Hmm.

It expires about the same time as the Parthenon and the Great Library, two other wonders that many consider highly valuable regardless of the expiration date.

No, they expire at the UN-SCIENTIFIC METHOD tech. The colossus is just wasted hammers, sorta like the chicken pizza.

 

[PaulusIII]

At least the normal lighthouses are cheap, but there are still 3 strikes against me for the Great Lighthouse. I am not industrious... and I I don't start with fishing... and I don't start with mining. And hell, if I try to whip I lose another turn with anarchy, etc./QUOTE]

The AI is often late with the Great Lighthouse. It seldom goes before 1000 BC on immortal, and on archipelago you get foreign bonus + intercontinental bonus for trades with other nations on other islands.

 

[obsolete]

Damn, damn, damn. I am still pondering here. IF I stay where I am, I at least get a river health bonus. But if I move... I get to uncover 4-5 new sea tiles which MAY bring in another food source which can be BIG. Also, I could get something good in some of the other land tiles to that east.

Can't...... decide!

At least, I think we can agree Fishing --> Mining --> Bronze --> Sailing --> Masonry ?

That's 5 techs away, and one of them very expensive.

I suppose, I could get lucky and pop a hut for bronze... or better yet, a horde of nasty units.


First unit.. Worker... and then warriors... If I move #9, I lose 1 turn, but can get him out in just 12. But if I stay... will take me about 15 turns, but I could MINE that 2h hill while waiting for bronze to come in.

I am absolutely stuck on this decision.

 

[obsolete]

Alright, the hell with it.

I think I'll move scout to #9, and if I don't so much as see a sea-food tile, aggricultural tile, or a cow.. then I stay in place.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Looking forward to this one. I actually think SSE can be quite strong on archipelago maps given enough hills to spend the seafood.

Don't underestimate the colossus, if you have bronze it's not that expensive and getting one or two (off-coast fish) extra commerce per sea square is not that bad. Plus, if you find any lakes they'll be 3f4c which is pretty good for an unimproved tile.

I think you should be able to get an early wonder (SH / GW or even oracle for MC) and still snag the GLH, even on immortal

 

[obsolete]

At the end of that SSE-WE series it seemed people were already getting bored with seeing it over and over again. So I never bothered continuing with it. That's a good thing I think, since I guess it means the original tests were validated.

For this archi series I am thinking on just going with the flow. I have no real goals on anything and will have to wait to see what happens and take it as it comes. But I'll probably end up doing something that looks weird.

Anyhow, I guess I will get to turn #1 now and do my ten-turn run for the day. I'm starting to feel almost freiken nervous already and it's only immortal. What the hell is wrong with me?

 

[vanatteveldt]

All I can say is: relax, it's a game

I agree that you showed pretty convincingly that you can do very well by pimping one city using wonders and settled GPs. In retrospect, it is a logical conclusion from the fact that OCC games can be quite strong, even before getting multiple nat wonders, simply by focusing on one city and not spending all resources building settlers, escorts, workers, and maintenance for new cities. So take away the nat wonders and add auxiliary cities and you still have strong play. It makes sense, but you deserve full credit for (AFAIK) being the first to see this and implementing it with such rigor and detail.

I loved the game where you start with tons of seafood but never bother to research fishing, instead totally focussing on wonder techs and getting them. Chapeau!