Darius Strikes Again!

[Bleser]

Well, after reading a recent thread on this forum about how Darius is potentially overpowered, I thought I would give it a whirl and see what happened.

I played at Monarch difficulty as Darius against four other civs on a Tiny Big_and_Small map (which turned out to be Pangaea-like). I researched straight for the wheel/animal husbandry to get my Immortals going and had a horse resource right next to my capital... perfect. By this time I had three cities total and I turned them all into Immortal-producers and they never switched out from that point on.

After I built a stack of about 15 I attacked my closest neighbor, the Khmer. They only had archers and had no chance - a few turns later and they were gone. Then I turned my sights to the Celts (who only had two cities), which were a bit tougher since they just got Gallic Swordsmen (which murder Immortals), but nevertheless they fell fairly fast. By this time Hannibal declared war on me and I just sent my hordes north to fight him. He figured me out and started building spearmen, but I simply bypassed his outer cities and went straight for his capital which was only defended by axeman and archers (I felt like the USA "island hopping" the Japanese). I then had about 40 Immortals swarm the spearmen in the outer cities who were left confused trying to defend their capital which fell to my army as well. Finally, Pacal was last, who had the WORST starting position I've ever seen (2-square peninsula close to tundra) and thus only had two cities and archers, and was defeated in two turns.

Conquest victory by 475 AD, score: 87,775.

 

[kazapp]

Congrats.

Though I'm not sure Darius could or should take the credit...

 

[Bleser]

Congrats.

Though I'm not sure Darius could or should take the credit...

Thanks.

I don't know... the unique unit really did well this game... had it just been chariots then I would not have been able to take the archer-held cities nearly as easily (Immortals get a 50% advantage versus archers).

 

[MrFrodo]

You really didn't leverage Financial/Organzied very well did you now?

 

[Supr49er]

Darius ...

After I built a stack of about 15 I attacked my closest neighbor, the Khmer. They only had archers and had no chance - a few turns later and they were gone.

You were fortunate indeed that Suryavarman wasn't adcanced enough for his UU Ballista Elephants. If you think Gallic Swordsmen are murder on Immortals, wait until you encounter Ballista Elephants.

 

[Bleser]

You were fortunate indeed that Suryavarman wasn't adcanced enough for his UU Ballista Elephants. If you think Gallic Swordsmen are murder on Immortals, wait until you encounter Ballista Elephants.

Interesting... I haven't even seen that unit yet! It's a good thing, though, since their capital actually had two elephant resources next to it, so that would have been bad news!

 

[Infantry#14]

yea, ballista elephants are really good counter units. All mounted units will get targeted first and most likely die outside cities (unless you have your own elephants)

 

[DrewBledsoe]

You really didn't leverage Financial/Organzied very well did you now?

Very good point, in fact your strat would have been much more effective with Cyrus (from the sounds of it)

And no offence again, a tiny map isn't really a test for Darius (or anyone for that matter)....try at least a standard map size, and his real talents start to come to fruition (fin/org), where you can't just go and conquer everyone with immortals,

His main value, is that you can either a) rex like mad and not suffer comparatively for it early on, or b) if you're boxed in, the immortals if got early enough are all conquering, and then you can actually afford to keep the conquered lands. Either way, a big chunk of early land (that you can afford)is an easy way to victory generally.

I actually think Immortals are the strongest UU in the game, all inclusive. Ok you can run into a roadblock if someone else has a bunch of spearmen, but their main value is they are cheap, can be got very, very early on, they move quickly, and they slaughter 2 of the 3 main units of the time (i.e. archers and axes). Its really easy to catch at least one ai with its proverbial pants down (still basic archer defence, thinking its safe when it isnt, and trying to expand), then just mow through their civ. Thing is, the ai never uses this tactic (in my experience even with rand pers all the time). If it did, I bet there'd be a lot more "Immortals are way overpowered" and the like threads...........

Anyways, well done, didn't mean to sound like a lecture

 

[Astax]

I use Darius in any FFA ancient I can pick civs It is pretty easymode

 

[Mesix]

I'll have to give Darius a spin sometime.

 

[gettingfat]

I actually think Immortals are the strongest UU in the game, all inclusive. Ok you can run into a roadblock if someone else has a bunch of spearmen, but their main value is they are cheap, can be got very, very early on, they move quickly, and they slaughter 2 of the 3 main units of the time (i.e. archers and axes). Its really easy to catch at least one ai with its proverbial pants down (still basic archer defence, thinking its safe when it isnt, and trying to expand), then just mow through their civ. Thing is, the ai never uses this tactic (in my experience even with rand pers all the time). If it did, I bet there'd be a lot more "Immortals are way overpowered" and the like threads...........

Immortals are truly devastating. I think they are actually better under Darius than Cyprus because I believe immortal excel when used in large quantity and being mass-produced, a feat the super-cashcow Darius can easily achieve. When I use Cyprus for conquest I had to raze so many cities to avoid strike. When I use Darius I can keep a couple of better ones and use them for whipping more units and still able to do a 50% research.

Talking about immortal rush. Last week I pulled out the most memorable one. Playing monarch, standard hemisphere map, I started on a highly juicy flood-plain filled small continent together with....... Toku!!! I was at the west end and Toku at the east of the continent. Who wants to share his life alone with Toku??? So he had to be killed .

I researched AH, the only horse tile was at the coast near Toku's capital and was over 15 tiles away. I did the craziest thing ....sneaked in my first settler all the way besides Toku's capital and settled right on the horse and at the same time, research fishing and sailing. This saved me from building a road across the continent and got the horse very early. I researched BW at the mean time (no copper near, good for the desperate horse seeking move). I quickly chopped and whipped 7-8 immortals and immediately rushed. When this is done Toku just reseached IW and has the only iron of the continent near his 3rd city but before he could built any spears, this city already fell to my immortals. I kept all cities and mass-produced more immortals and soon Kyoto fell. Then I owned the whole great flood-plain continent, cottaged like crazy and won space victory at the beginning of 19th century. This really shows how great Darius can both fight and tech.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

Wow!

Impressive and daring strats - particularily settling a city on Toku's lands!!!

 

[KMadCandy]

I actually think Immortals are the strongest UU in the game, all inclusive. Ok you can run into a roadblock if someone else has a bunch of spearmen, but their main value is they are cheap, can be got very, very early on, they move quickly, and they slaughter 2 of the 3 main units of the time (i.e. archers and axes). Its really easy to catch at least one ai with its proverbial pants down (still basic archer defence, thinking its safe when it isnt, and trying to expand), then just mow through their civ. Thing is, the ai never uses this tactic (in my experience even with rand pers all the time). If it did, I bet there'd be a lot more "Immortals are way overpowered" and the like threads...........

all of that and they get defensive bonuses! plus they're really pretty.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Immortals are truly devastating. I think they are actually better under Darius than Cyprus because I believe immortal excel when used in large quantity and being mass-produced, a feat the super-cashcow Darius can easily achieve. When I use Cyprus for conquest I had to raze so many cities to avoid strike. When I use Darius I can keep a couple of better ones and use them for whipping more units and still able to do a 50% research.

Talking about immortal rush. Last week I pulled out the most memorable one. Playing monarch, standard hemisphere map, I started on a highly juicy flood-plain filled small continent together with....... Toku!!! I was at the west end and Toku at the east of the continent. Who wants to share his life alone with Toku??? So he had to be killed .

I researched AH, the only horse tile was at the coast near Toku's capital and was over 15 tiles away. I did the craziest thing ....sneaked in my first settler all the way besides Toku's capital and settled right on the horse and at the same time, research fishing and sailing. This saved me from building a road across the continent and got the horse very early. I researched BW at the mean time (no copper near, good for the desperate horse seeking move). I quickly chopped and whipped 7-8 immortals and immediately rushed. When this is done Toku just reseached IW and has the only iron of the continent near his 3rd city but before he could built any spears, this city already fell to my immortals. I kept all cities and mass-produced more immortals and soon Kyoto fell. Then I owned the whole great flood-plain continent, cottaged like crazy and won space victory at the beginning of 19th century. This really shows how great Darius can both fight and tech.

Yeah your right about keeping the cities with Darius, in fact I have to ban myself from playing him, hes just too easy imho. I love aggressive settling like that too, even though it basically means you're commited to war with the move....

EDIT: My first test game with Bhruics new changes was Darius:- I popped AN Husb from a hut on the very first turn, and 3 turns later my scout popped Horse Riding....never built anything but horse troops...

all of that and they get defensive bonuses! plus they're really pretty.

Yep forgot the def bonus, and I'd say *(the g word)* but then I'd have to pay you royalties

 

[Bleser]

Very good point, in fact your strat would have been much more effective with Cyrus (from the sounds of it)

And no offence again, a tiny map isn't really a test for Darius (or anyone for that matter)....try at least a standard map size, and his real talents start to come to fruition (fin/org), where you can't just go and conquer everyone with immortals,

His main value, is that you can either a) rex like mad and not suffer comparatively for it early on, or b) if you're boxed in, the immortals if got early enough are all conquering, and then you can actually afford to keep the conquered lands. Either way, a big chunk of early land (that you can afford)is an easy way to victory generally.

I actually think Immortals are the strongest UU in the game, all inclusive. Ok you can run into a roadblock if someone else has a bunch of spearmen, but their main value is they are cheap, can be got very, very early on, they move quickly, and they slaughter 2 of the 3 main units of the time (i.e. archers and axes). Its really easy to catch at least one ai with its proverbial pants down (still basic archer defence, thinking its safe when it isnt, and trying to expand), then just mow through their civ. Thing is, the ai never uses this tactic (in my experience even with rand pers all the time). If it did, I bet there'd be a lot more "Immortals are way overpowered" and the like threads...........

Anyways, well done, didn't mean to sound like a lecture

Yeah, tiny maps make for easy conquest victories, but I like that fact that with Tiny maps a good four to five cities can get you victory... easy management and quite fun! I just started a new game last night on small map size and it feels huge compared to my game with Darius! I like the games to finish farily fast and as we all know the larger the map, the longer the game.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

My question is: what if you don't pop horses anywhere near your cities? I ask b/c I've tried Darius and kept a fairly cruddy start position b/c I figured there would be some iron or horses nearby to counter the lack of lux resources / fresh water. No go. There was bronze about 12 tiles from my capital, but nothing else in the way of strat resources. I quit that game pretty quickly as I had chosen 15 civs on a large map. Without horses / iron, I would've been fending off Montezuma until another civ came along with a massive tech lead and crush me

 

[Bleser]

My question is: what if you don't pop horses anywhere near your cities? I ask b/c I've tried Darius and kept a fairly cruddy start position b/c I figured there would be some iron or horses nearby to counter the lack of lux resources / fresh water. No go. There was bronze about 12 tiles from my capital, but nothing else in the way of strat resources. I quit that game pretty quickly as I had chosen 15 civs on a large map. Without horses / iron, I would've been fending off Montezuma until another civ came along with a massive tech lead and crush me

Well, no horse, no Immortals, no-go! I guess you would just have to adapt your game plan but if you're totally set on doing an early Immortal rush then it would't be possible... unless some distant civ was stupid enough to trade them with you.

 

[gettingfat]

My question is: what if you don't pop horses anywhere near your cities? I ask b/c I've tried Darius and kept a fairly cruddy start position b/c I figured there would be some iron or horses nearby to counter the lack of lux resources / fresh water. No go. There was bronze about 12 tiles from my capital, but nothing else in the way of strat resources. I quit that game pretty quickly as I had chosen 15 civs on a large map. Without horses / iron, I would've been fending off Montezuma until another civ came along with a massive tech lead and crush me

No horses, then treat Darius as the Vanilla Washington. I've never relied on Navy Seals back then anyway. In your case you also get a copper 12 tiles away, which is not too far. With Darius you will be able to afford early expansion.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah, but with the kind of pressure exerted in a 15 civ large continents map (not huge mind you), Monty kept declaring on me to try and rid me of my copper city and I could just imagine the rest of the world teching WAY past me and just landing on my beaches with tanks/infantry/artillery while I'm still trying to grab Assembly Line. I was kinda counting on an early immortal rush to secure the better part of the continent.

 

[Shadondriel]

You really didn't leverage Financial/Organzied very well did you now?

Washington in Vanilla has that traits as well, but he isn't quite as powerful. In that case I bet it's the immortal immortals ^^

edit: oops, gettingfat was way faster to say that *duck and cover*